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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 12 2013, 01:25 AM   #16
Finn
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

garak1 wrote: View Post
Hi,

I was curious about a line from 'Nemesis' where Picard states that he has made first contact with 27 civilisations.

Has anyone ever put together a list of these 27 civlisations known from the TV series and movies?


A few obvious ones to start with:
  • Borg
  • Ferengi
  • Q
  • Cytherians
  • Travellers
I would be interested to hear people's thoughts.
I wouldn't count Travellers, since he came aboard with a fellow starfleet officer.
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Old December 12 2013, 01:50 AM   #17
BillJ
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post

I wouldn't count Travellers, since he came aboard with a fellow starfleet officer.
Kozinski wasn't with Starfleet. Though I'd imagine that the Traveler likely did interact with Starfleet officers prior to coming aboard the Enterprise due to being Kozinski's assistant.
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Old December 12 2013, 06:09 AM   #18
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

James Kirk: 36

“The Corbomite Maneuver” - The First Federation.
“Charlie X” - Thasians
“The Squire Of Gothos” - Trelane
“Miri” - humanoids, anway
“Shore Leave” - the Caretaker representing his humanoid race (if thats what he really looked like)
“Arena” - Gorn and Metrons
“The Alternative Factor” - whatever race the two Lazurus were
“The Devil In The Dark” - the Horta
“Errand Of Mercy” - the Oraganians in their true form
“Catspaw” - Korob and Sylvia
“The Gamesters Of Triskelion” - the Triskelion brains
“Who Mourns For Adonis?” - Apollo
“The Apple” - the Vaalians
“A Private Little War” - first contact 11 years earlier
“By Any Other Name” - the Kelvans
“Return To Tomorrow” - Sargon's race
“Spectre Of The Gun” - the Melkotians
“Spock’s Brain” - the inhabitants of Sigma Draconis 6
“For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky” - the Yonadans (technically Fabrini descendents)
“Wink Of An Eye” the Scalosians
“The Lights Of Zetar” - the Zetarians
“Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” - the Cheronians
“Plato’s Stepchildren” - the Platonians
“The Savage Curtain” - the Excalbians
“The Ambergris Element” - the Argoans
“Beyond The Farthest Star” - malevolent energy life form
“The Infinite Vulcan” - the Phylosians
“Once Upon A Planet” - cloud creature, but technically by Spock rather than Kirk
“Jihad” - the Skorr and the Vedala
“The Counter-Clock Incident” - anti--universe inhabitants
“BEM” - sentient reptile race
TMP - Vger
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Last edited by Warped9; December 12 2013 at 06:56 AM.
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Old December 12 2013, 06:41 AM   #19
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

I retract my initial comment. Clearly I didn't think it through.
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Old December 12 2013, 06:55 AM   #20
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

There were actually more species encountered by Kirk, but technically someone else had already been there first.
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Old December 12 2013, 07:41 AM   #21
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Hey, you forgot the virus from "The Naked time".
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Old December 12 2013, 08:17 AM   #22
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

I think its got to be a 'formal First Contact'.

Say Kirk with the Gorn. Technically the people on the Starbase that the Gorns wiped out were the first to contact the Gorns. Charlie X was the first to contact the Thasians too.
I think 'First Contact' must be where the
represenatives of one species have formal acknowledged interaction with the representatives of another species in either a friendly or unfriendly manner
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Old December 12 2013, 01:56 PM   #23
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

The Archons and Iotians. Earlier starships contacted them first. With the Capellans whatever ship McCoy was on contacted them first some years prior. I made a point of trying to exclude those. There are a few others including worlds where contact had obviously happened long before. I didn't include the Talosians because Pike got there first.

In fairness you have also to define what you're contacting. Is it sentient, intelligent, a race, a new species. A virus isn't an intelligent life form. The Horta and the two different cloud creatures were self-aware and intelligent life forms.

Strictly speaking a civilization goes beyond simply a new species or race unless the term civilization is being used very loosely and perhaps incorrectly. In Trek we often see representatives of intelligent life forms, but not their civilizations. So does that still count? If not then the instances of first contact are far fewer.
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Old December 12 2013, 02:09 PM   #24
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

He certainly wanted to make "first contact" with Anij.

PICARD: I have 318 days of shore leave coming. And I intend to use them.
Yeah BABY, yeah!
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Old December 12 2013, 02:25 PM   #25
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Lance wrote: View Post
He certainly wanted to make "first contact" with Anij.

PICARD: I have 318 days of shore leave coming. And I intend to use them.
Yeah BABY, yeah!
If she's been alive for 300+ years, he will probably be going where every Ba'ku male has gone before.
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Old December 15 2013, 04:36 AM   #26
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Kozinski wasn't with Starfleet. Though I'd imagine that the Traveler likely did interact with Starfleet officers prior to coming aboard the Enterprise due to being Kozinski's assistant.
As I recall, the Traveller was travelling incognito with Kozinski. I think they knew what he was capable of, but not who he was.

It was only during the warp experiments that his true identiy was disclosed to Picard. As such, I believe that Picard should be credited with the true 'First Contact' between the Federation and the Traveller species.

I also believe that the Ba'ku shown in 'Insurrection' had their First Contact with Picard. Whilst the Federation was aware of their presence, there was no contact until Data was revealed to them, and even then their true identities were not revealed until their interactions with Picard.

In regards to some of the other points made, as I understand it, 'First Contact' is proper, formal diplomatic contact between the Federation and another nation state. It is certainly possible for the Federation to be aware of other species but not to have made formal First Contact as of yet.

This also provides a convenient method for species to appear in prequel series or flashbacks prior to formal First Contact occuring. Whilst I didn't agree with all the appearances on such species on Enterprise, I do appreciate the logic of the formal First Contact process.

My thanks to those that posted in this thread.
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Old December 15 2013, 07:18 AM   #27
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

garak1 wrote: View Post
A few obvious ones to start with:

Q
There was a Q couple living on Earth long before Picard met Q, long enough before to have a daughter and have her grow to be an adult.

Likely many hundreds of people met them.
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Old December 15 2013, 10:01 AM   #28
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
garak1 wrote: View Post
A few obvious ones to start with:

Q
There was a Q couple living on Earth long before Picard met Q, long enough before to have a daughter and have her grow to be an adult.

Likely many hundreds of people met them.
IIRC though, wouldn't DeLancie Q be the first Q to make their presence officially known to the Federation, though? I would think that definitely counts as first contact, whereas the Q-parents lived incognito, and Starfleet had no record of the Q Continuum prior to Farpoint.
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Old December 15 2013, 08:50 PM   #29
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

I guess that it would be a matter of what is meant by "First Contact."

Is it a interaction between two species (this is what I believe), or is a official formal meeting?

Zephram met informally with the Captain of a exploration ship, that was considered "First Contact."

In 'Farpoint, all Picard did is talk to a single individual. Really, there has never been a official meeting between the Q Continum and the United Federation of Planets.



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Old December 16 2013, 12:11 AM   #30
Cyke101
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
I guess that it would be a matter of what is meant by "First Contact."

Is it a interaction between two species (this is what I believe), or is a official formal meeting?

Zephram met informally with the Captain of a exploration ship, that was considered "First Contact."

In 'Farpoint, all Picard did is talk to a single individual. Really, there has never been a official meeting between the Q Continum and the United Federation of Planets.


Encounters with the Continuum are definitely documented after Farpoint, though, so much so that Sisko and Janeway could access records about those encounters and that Starfleet could study their behavior through those records. There were no records of the incognito-Q, however (and indeed, wouldn't a Q be able to wipe out a universe's memory if they wanted to?). For whatever reason, the Continuum want their presence to be known to the Federation through Farpoint and beyond. Official documentation (record-keeping) would be an important part of First Contact: Q, the Borg, the Dominion, they all entered Federation records in their own ways -- hardly formal, but they made their presence known.

From Memory-Alpha:
The term first contact describes the first official encounter between representatives of two races or governments.
With that said, even though Picard met with a single individual, that individual revealed the nature of his government and race as an official representative of the Continuum (the trial being a very important part of the episode's plot -- trials are judiciary, which is a government institution), and that meeting led to further encounters between their two governments, albeit usually through the same representative.

The initial contact need not be formal -- after all, the Enterprise-D is still credited with first contact with the Ferengi, even though that was born of battle (so definitely not formal). Area 51 and the NX-01's encounters happened without humanity's true or consensual knowledge of the civilization and the Ferengi didn't identify themselves as the attacker of the Stargazer until years 9 years after their battle. The thing that defeats the incognito-Q as first contact is just that -- they didn't want humans to know about the Q at that point, so there was no first contact to speak of until Farpoint.
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