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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 14 2013, 11:32 PM   #106
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Forget about "The Inner Light", I'm talking "The Visitor"! Kidding aside, I don't think the Michael Bay brand of relentless action with characters shouting "GO! GO! GO!" every five to ten minutes will work if they keep doing it over and over with nuTrek. You can only get away with that before audiences gets bored, and even though STID delivered on that, it still made less than the first film in the US, when many expected it to do much better (and hold your horses, I'm not calling it a failure at the box office, but domestically speaking it is a bit of a step down, and sequels generally do better). That being said, it doesn't need to keep doing the same kind of action spectacle. They can easily tone it down and still drawn in audiences if the story and characters are strong enough. A good example of a contemporary action film is SKYFALL, which probably only has a quarter of the action STID has and yet it did two times the box office that the latter ended up with. Why shouldn't Trek tone it down the action? Seeing Kirk fire a phaser at a bunch of Klingons isn't gonna drawn in more audiences, it's the story. Adjusted for inflation, THE VOYAGE HOME is still the biggest Trek has ever been and it's probably the most unconventional Trek film ever. And no, I'm not asking for more Whales, I'm just saying that a film series cannot sustain if it keeps doing the same thing over and over, as it will just get stale over time.

Still, the remark on "The Inner Light" is cute. It didn't win a Hugo Award because it "bored audiences to tears", heck, it certain moved people enough to get teary eyed. It isn't even my favorite episode, but I can't deny it's effective. Isn't that what we want audiences to feel about Trek anyway? To be surprised that a Trek movie actually engaged them that deeply? Would you think audiences would be bored to tears over watching "The City on the Edge of Forever" too?

But maybe you're right. Poor Gene. So much for your peaceful vision of the future, idiot. People don't want that crap anymore. People want shooting!
Why should they "tone it down"? Why should Trek be overtly focused on "character" and "philosophy"? Trek is many things - "The Doomsday Machine" is as much Star Trek as "The Inner Light", significantly more so IMO.

Action/Adventure Trek is far more suited to the big screen than watered down, over sentimental touchy-feely nonsense. STID got the balance just right.

In answer to your question, no, I don't think audiences would be bored by TCotEoF at all in one sense, as I regard it as one of Trek's greatest achievements. But, as much as I love it, I do think a cinematic rendering of City, or something like it, would be considerably less successful than the last two Bad Robot outings at the box office.

Certain fans rave about "The Inner Light" - so? I find it to be dull, boring and tedious - and doesn't deserve any kind of comparison to City - not even in the same league.

I wasn't being "cute" in this, or my antecedent post FYI. I am, however, getting really, really bored of the "too many 'splosions" or "too much action, no character" schtick routinely rolled out by those who dislike recent Trek output.
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Old December 14 2013, 11:39 PM   #107
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Kidding aside, I don't think the Michael Bay brand of relentless action with characters shouting "GO! GO! GO!" every five to ten minutes will work if they keep doing it over and over with nuTrek.
I am, however, getting really, really bored of the "too many 'splosions" or "too much action, no character" schtick routinely rolled out by those who dislike recent Trek output.
All I know is that people who are making these complaints didn't see the same movie I saw.
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Old December 15 2013, 12:02 AM   #108
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

Eggnog Balrog wrote: View Post
Re: Nimoy or Meyer directing -

"Let's get guy's who haven't filmed a major blockbuster in almost 30 years!"

That has "Bad Idea" written all over it...
Not as bad as getting some new director who has never filmed a blockbuster or a movie like Trek before. At least they have been there. Meyer is still writing, still in the movie business and Nimoy keeps saying he is retired but keeps appearing in Fringe and Star Trek.
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Old December 15 2013, 12:05 AM   #109
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
geneo wrote: View Post
Bring back Leonard Nimoy, I bet he would do it if the price was right.
I bet he wouldn't.
He keeps saying he is retired but keeps on appearing on more than Trek.
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Old December 15 2013, 12:07 AM   #110
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

geneo wrote: View Post
Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
geneo wrote: View Post
Bring back Leonard Nimoy, I bet he would do it if the price was right.
I bet he wouldn't.
He keeps saying he is retired but keeps on appearing on more than Trek.
Ten or fifteen minutes of screen time is a Hell of a lot different than directing a $170 million dollar movie. I like Nimoy, but I just don't see him having the energy to take on that type of workload at eighty-plus years of age.
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Old December 15 2013, 12:10 AM   #111
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

geneo wrote: View Post
He keeps saying he is retired but keeps on appearing on more than Trek.
Agreeing to small parts here and there that take a few days, or at most a couple of weeks, to film isn't at all comparable to the immense task of directing a big budget movie.
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Old December 15 2013, 12:31 AM   #112
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Forget about "The Inner Light", I'm talking "The Visitor"! Kidding aside, I don't think the Michael Bay brand of relentless action with characters shouting "GO! GO! GO!" every five to ten minutes will work if they keep doing it over and over with nuTrek. You can only get away with that before audiences gets bored, and even though STID delivered on that, it still made less than the first film in the US, when many expected it to do much better (and hold your horses, I'm not calling it a failure at the box office, but domestically speaking it is a bit of a step down, and sequels generally do better). That being said, it doesn't need to keep doing the same kind of action spectacle. They can easily tone it down and still drawn in audiences if the story and characters are strong enough. A good example of a contemporary action film is SKYFALL, which probably only has a quarter of the action STID has and yet it did two times the box office that the latter ended up with. Why shouldn't Trek tone it down the action? Seeing Kirk fire a phaser at a bunch of Klingons isn't gonna drawn in more audiences, it's the story. Adjusted for inflation, THE VOYAGE HOME is still the biggest Trek has ever been and it's probably the most unconventional Trek film ever. And no, I'm not asking for more Whales, I'm just saying that a film series cannot sustain if it keeps doing the same thing over and over, as it will just get stale over time.

Still, the remark on "The Inner Light" is cute. It didn't win a Hugo Award because it "bored audiences to tears", heck, it certain moved people enough to get teary eyed. It isn't even my favorite episode, but I can't deny it's effective. Isn't that what we want audiences to feel about Trek anyway? To be surprised that a Trek movie actually engaged them that deeply? Would you think audiences would be bored to tears over watching "The City on the Edge of Forever" too?

But maybe you're right. Poor Gene. So much for your peaceful vision of the future, idiot. People don't want that crap anymore. People want shooting!
Why should they "tone it down"? Why should Trek be overtly focused on "character" and "philosophy"? Trek is many things - "The Doomsday Machine" is as much Star Trek as "The Inner Light", significantly more so IMO.

Action/Adventure Trek is far more suited to the big screen than watered down, over sentimental touchy-feely nonsense. STID got the balance just right.

In answer to your question, no, I don't think audiences would be bored by TCotEoF at all in one sense, as I regard it as one of Trek's greatest achievements. But, as much as I love it, I do think a cinematic rendering of City, or something like it, would be considerably less successful than the last two Bad Robot outings at the box office.

Certain fans rave about "The Inner Light" - so? I find it to be dull, boring and tedious - and doesn't deserve any kind of comparison to City - not even in the same league.

I wasn't being "cute" in this, or my antecedent post FYI. I am, however, getting really, really bored of the "too many 'splosions" or "too much action, no character" schtick routinely rolled out by those who dislike recent Trek output.

My point is that if they don't try something new and different down the line that audiences will get bored. Nimoy was smart to realize that with THE VOYAGE HOME and it paid off big time. Two big spectacles in a row so far, it would not harm the third film at all to do something unique. A good start would be to stop using a villain hellbent on revenge.
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Old December 15 2013, 07:20 PM   #113
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

We're getting stuck in extremes of thought. Let's get real. It isn't simply a choice between ID and "Inner Light." TWOK contains a lot of action, but doesn't rely on one set-piece after another. It allows the action of the story to build to peaks at certain plot points. The story builds through the script, whereas modern action films begin with a list of set-pieces which are strung together into a script. Now if you like the set-pieces of the last few films, that's fine; it's all about personal choice, and modern audiences have come to expect action films to be build around set-pieces. But let's not pretend the only other choice is to do a dull story with no action, because that's nonsense and nobody is asking for that.
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good start would be to stop using a villain hellbent on revenge.
Christ on a crutch, yes. Not only has that been the plot of the last umpteen Trek outings, but the last two films have been even more specifically about an evil villain from another time out for revenge.
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Old December 15 2013, 07:37 PM   #114
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

Am I the only one who enjoyed the last two films for the characters and their interactions primarily and not the action set pieces (as awesome as I thought they were)?
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Old December 15 2013, 07:45 PM   #115
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

Not at all. The best thing the two Abrams movie do is good character work (the straight-forward if uninteresting characterization of Nero excepted).
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Old December 15 2013, 07:53 PM   #116
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who enjoyed the last two films for the characters and their interactions primarily and not the action set pieces (as awesome as I thought they were)?
As I've already stated, I love STID for both the spectacle and character. The balance between the two is spot on. Fundamentally, I don't accept the argument STID is light on character or heart at all.

Many haters begin their critique with some glib "it's all 'splosions" rhetoric. Honestly, when I see this now, the rest of their post just blurs into blah blah blah for me.
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Old December 15 2013, 08:08 PM   #117
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
My point is that if they don't try something new and different down the line that audiences will get bored.
I understand this point of view. And to be fair, the past THREE Trek outings have been a variation of TWOK.

Nimoy was smart to realize that with THE VOYAGE HOME and it paid off big time.
TVH was TMP done right.

Two big spectacles in a row so far, it would not harm the third film at all to do something unique. A good start would be to stop using a villain hellbent on revenge.
I agree about villian hellbent on revenge part. But I don't see them telling an intimate, quieter, kinder Star Trek movie. The first two nuTreks have been big successes, and much of that is due to its new, slicker and modern visual impact. Although I would prefer a better treatment of story, style is pretty much a given that it will stay exactly the same as we've seen.

But there is NO DOUBT the "revenge-villian" trope has run its course in nuTrek. Enough already, PTB!
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Old December 15 2013, 08:58 PM   #118
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who enjoyed the last two films for the characters and their interactions primarily and not the action set pieces (as awesome as I thought they were)?
No, I don't think you're the only one. But I personally found the character development, such as it was, entirely superficial and dull, just as, coincidentally, I found the action superficial and dull.
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Many haters begin their critique with some glib "it's all 'splosions" rhetoric. Honestly, when I see this now, the rest of their post just blurs into blah blah blah for me.
So anyone and everyone who criticizes the action of the last two films should be dismissed as a "hater?" This is the kind of ugly closed-mindedness that is endemic to both sides.
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Old December 15 2013, 09:18 PM   #119
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

-- DOUBLE POST DELETED --
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Old December 15 2013, 09:26 PM   #120
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Re: Joe Cornish To Direct STAR TREK 3?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Many haters begin their critique with some glib "it's all 'splosions" rhetoric. Honestly, when I see this now, the rest of their post just blurs into blah blah blah for me.
So anyone and everyone who criticizes the action of the last two films should be dismissed as a "hater?" This is the kind of ugly closed-mindedness that is endemic to both sides.
No, that's not what I said at all, and I'll thank you not make assumptions reference my "ugly close mindedness" - it's rude and plain uncalled for.

You're right though, there is a lot of close mindedness, and pithy "'splosions" commentary supported by little else is endemic of that - which was my actual point. Essentially, that's what I object to.
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