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Old December 13 2013, 02:18 AM   #511
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

So we've re-established Asgardians as having (a) superhuman strength and endurance and (b) superior materials-fabrication technology by Terran standards. They just like to make it look really old-school.
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Old December 13 2013, 02:36 AM   #512
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

^ Time to match the best of Asgard against the best of Krypton!

I wonder who would come out on top?

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Old December 13 2013, 02:56 AM   #513
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
If you're now saying that it's not clear exactly how superhumanly strong they are, then we agree. But you didn't seem to be agreeing with me before.
Difference in emphasis. You said there was no clear indication how strong they were. In the context of the earlier discussion and the question that prompted it, I took "how strong" to be a matter of whether they were in the same strength range as Captain America or a substantially greater one. One doesn't have to pin it down to the ton in order to demonstrate that it's the latter.

And really, bench-pressing figures are a pretty arbitrary standard. Bench-press is a specialization. An athlete who's trained specifically for that exercise is going to be able to lift more than an athlete with equivalent innate ability, size, musculature, and training who's specialized in some different discipline. So it's not really the most accurate measure of whether two individuals are equally strong, and thus one shouldn't take the exact numbers as anything more than a convenient approximation for comparison purposes. What matters is the comparison itself, how one character's strength ranks in proportion to another.
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Old December 13 2013, 03:15 AM   #514
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

At this point you're going in circles. That their degree of superhuman strength hasn't been clearly established onscreen was my point all along, so why are you still arguing?
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Old December 13 2013, 03:20 AM   #515
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
At this point you're going in circles. That their degree of superhuman strength hasn't been clearly established onscreen was my point all along, so why are you still arguing?
Mixer, meet Christopher...

(Said with a "" to you both.)
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Old December 13 2013, 03:32 AM   #516
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Yeah, I know all too well. I'm gratified that it's not just me.
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Old December 13 2013, 03:32 AM   #517
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
At this point you're going in circles. That their degree of superhuman strength hasn't been clearly established onscreen was my point all along, so why are you still arguing?
I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying why my interpretation of the question is focused differently than yours. This isn't about you and me; this is a public discussion of a topic of general interest, and there's no harm in different people contributing different perspectives to the discussion. There's no "right" answer that wins the thread; there's an ongoing conversation evaluating the issue from different angles.

I mean, we're talking about comic-book characters. This should be fun and light-hearted, not contentious.
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Old December 13 2013, 03:37 AM   #518
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Christopher, your idea of a fun, light-hearted, non-contentious discussion always ends with me looking for Tylenol....
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Old December 13 2013, 03:41 AM   #519
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Random observation. In the new trailer Cap fights and defeats 10 goons (renegade SHIELD agents?) in an elevator. It's a great scene but I think the confined space was a disadvantage for Cap's assailants. They probably got in each other's way.
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Old December 13 2013, 03:52 AM   #520
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Well, I think they needed to restrain him with that electromagnet thing and poke him with their tazer rods, both of which work better in confined spaces (the latter because it's a short ranged weapon).
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Old December 15 2013, 03:35 AM   #521
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Bad Bishop wrote: View Post
Random observation. In the new trailer Cap fights and defeats 10 goons (renegade SHIELD agents?) in an elevator. It's a great scene but I think the confined space was a disadvantage for Cap's assailants. They probably got in each other's way.
I'm thinking in that situation he's probably the renegade one.
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Old December 15 2013, 03:33 PM   #522
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

I think he's not on the same page. Who is the renegade depends on your point of view.
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Old December 15 2013, 04:36 PM   #523
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Looks like Cap's being arrested in that scene.
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Old December 15 2013, 04:39 PM   #524
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Arrested by SHIELD people (who may or may not be acting under orders).
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Old December 15 2013, 04:40 PM   #525
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Re: Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I think he's not on the same page. Who is the renegade depends on your point of view.
I'm not so sure. Who's in the right depends on your point of view, but "renegade" means a deserter or traitor -- literally, one who has reneged, who has gone back on one's word. More generally it's used to mean an outlaw or rebel. So if Cap is defending SHIELD against some rogue group within its ranks, then yes, they're the renegades. But if Cap is the one rebelling against SHIELD's own leadership -- which does look like it may be the case -- then he's the renegade, even if he is the one morally in the right. True, he hasn't reneged on his own principles, and he might feel that SHIELD has reneged instead. But if he's violating his oath to follow SHIELD's orders, if he's rebelling against those in lawful authority, then he is technically a renegade.
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