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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 14 2013, 06:29 PM   #991
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Since you seem to have missed the point of the Romney reference, I'm not talking about intellectual property issues at the corporate level. I'm talking about a person copying or ripping off the work of another person. No legal issues involved.
Oh I got it. But the reality is person A and person B are employees of Corporation C. The work they do is for the corporation not for themselves. If I rip off Stephen King by lifting passages from the Stand in my own work, its different than if I'm hired by Stephen King to write a new version of the Stand and I'm allowed to use material from the Stand.
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Old December 14 2013, 06:35 PM   #992
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Hey, John Fogerty was sued for stealing form himself.

Twice.

Anything is possible.
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Old December 14 2013, 07:03 PM   #993
Set Harth
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
Oh I got it. But the reality is person A and person B are employees of Corporation C.
Oh then you don't got it. Because that's totally irrelevant. Did you, for some reason, imagine that I was talking about legally actionable issues? Copyright? Employment? Corporations? Because I wasn't. But have fun with your strawman, I guess.

CorporalClegg wrote:
Hey, John Fogerty was sued for stealing form himself.
Well, that explains the ensuing epidemic of shapelessness.
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Old December 14 2013, 07:15 PM   #994
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Hey, John Fogerty was sued for stealing form himself.

Twice.
That's not quite the same thing, though, is it?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
Oh I got it. But the reality is person A and person B are employees of Corporation C.
Oh then you don't got it. Because that's totally irrelevant. Did you, for some reason, imagine that I was talking about legally actionable issues? Copyright? Employment? Corporations? Because I wasn't. But have fun with your strawman, I guess.
Take a step back, Set.
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Old December 14 2013, 07:27 PM   #995
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
Oh I got it. But the reality is person A and person B are employees of Corporation C.
Oh then you don't got it. Because that's totally irrelevant. Did you, for some reason, imagine that I was talking about legally actionable issues? Copyright? Employment? Corporations? Because I wasn't. But have fun with your strawman, I guess.
What strawman? You asked if the question "Can a company rip itself off" was a reference to the "Mitt Romney 'corporations are people' thing". I said no and gave examples.

So, enlighten me, how does "Corporations are people" relate to "Can a company rip it's self off?"
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Old December 14 2013, 07:40 PM   #996
Set Harth
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

What strawman?
All Star Trek products are part of the same franchise.

We know.

Again, I was never talking about companies or corporations. I was talking about individuals. An attempt to shift the discussion to a macro level where we don't see individuals anymore would be pointless, because:

Set Harth wrote:
I'm talking about a person copying or ripping off the work of another person.
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Old December 14 2013, 07:55 PM   #997
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
What strawman?
All Star Trek products are part of the same franchise.

We know.

Again, I was never talking about companies or corporations. I was talking about individuals. An attempt to shift the discussion to a macro level where we don't see individuals anymore would be pointless, because:

Set Harth wrote:
I'm talking about a person copying or ripping off the work of another person.
How is what I said a strawman?

Your query was "is this a Mitt Romney 'corporations are people' thing?" which isn't about someone "ripping off" the work of another person. That's all I had to respond to. If you don't want to talk about corporations don't use a statement about corporations in response to a question about corporations.

Things like call backs and homages are a common tool for writers working in long running franchises or serial fiction. Its not a "bad thing" or a "ripoff".
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Old December 14 2013, 08:15 PM   #998
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Let's just agree it was lazy and call it a day. Some love it, some hate it, everyone is happy or miserable.
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Old December 14 2013, 08:25 PM   #999
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

No, I can't agree that it was lazy. It's simply a tool used by writers.
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Old December 14 2013, 08:37 PM   #1000
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Right, "homage".
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Old December 14 2013, 08:43 PM   #1001
Set Harth
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
How is what I said a strawman?
Because I have not argued that the writers of TWOK and STID respectively were working for distinct franchises or corporations; because I have not alleged legal copyright infringement; because my position was about the actions of individuals and had nothing to do with corporations.

North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
Things like call backs and homages are a common tool for writers working in long running franchises
You know what's uncommon? Ripping off a whole scene, just with two characters' roles cleverly switched, even going so far as to use dialogue lifted from the original scene. I don't think the average "callback" or "homage" is so bold as to boldly go there.
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Old December 14 2013, 08:52 PM   #1002
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
How is what I said a strawman?
Because I have not argued that the writers of TWOK and STID respectively were working for distinct franchises or corporations; because I have not alleged legal copyright infringement; because my position was about the actions of individuals and had nothing to do with corporations.
Again, in answer to a question about companies ripping themselves off, you brought up Romney's quote. Those are the two statements I was responding to. No strawman, just a statement about the reality of work for hire.

North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
Things like callbacks and homages are a common tool for writers working in long running franchises
You know what's uncommon? Ripping off a whole scene, just with two characters' roles cleverly switched, even going so far as to use dialogue lifted from the original scene. I don't think the average "callback" or "homage" is so bold as to boldly go there.
Sure they would, its pretty much the point of the device to either use the situation/dialog as previously seen or find a way to flip it.
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Old December 14 2013, 08:57 PM   #1003
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

A good example of a callback was Nero screaming Spock's name like Kirk shouted "Khan", which means we had two call backs to in a row so far.
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Old December 14 2013, 09:03 PM   #1004
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
A good example of a callback was Nero screaming Spock's name like Kirk shouted "Khan", which means we had two call backs to in a row so far.
So any time a character shouts another characters name in Star Trek its a callback to Kirk in TWOK?
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Old December 14 2013, 09:04 PM   #1005
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Yes. And a lazy one at that.
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