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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 29 2013, 02:13 PM   #136
Lance
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

^ I agree Bill, Section 31 have definitely become a bit of an easy crutch for writers wanting to do 'conspriacy theory' plots in the expanded universe.
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Old November 29 2013, 05:22 PM   #137
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Another episode that does it better than Insurrection: Ensigns of Command


T'Girl wrote: View Post
^ Makes me wonder, exactly who did Riker communicate with? I mean who did he call?

Can a Commander in Starfleet simply call members of the Council directly, and have them simply run to the "phone" to speak to him?

Or would Riker have to weave his way through the bureaucracy for hours on end for each of the Council Members he wanted to talk to?


Secretary: Councilman, I have a urgent call for you.
Councilman: From?
Secretary: Commander Riker aboard...
Councilman: ...the Enterprise, I know. *sigh* At least it isn't Picard or that damn pet android of his. What's Riker whining about this week?
Secretary: He says there some primitive people on some backwater planet that Starfleet want to move to another backwater planet.
Councilman: Really? This shit again? What is that like the 10th or 12th time this year? Tell him I'm not in. In fact, change my com-code.

Edit: A year or so old, but basically a video version of this thread: Linkara and Nostalgia Critic tackle Star Trek Insurrection



also, yeah that review is great.

I say it again and again in these threads: I don't know how the movie got to the filming stage without someone pointing out the huge flaws in the premise.
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Old November 30 2013, 12:57 AM   #138
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

sonak wrote: View Post
I say it again and again in these threads: I don't know how the movie got to the filming stage without someone pointing out the huge flaws in the premise.
Well, that's the most bizarre thing of all: it didn't. According to various sources, there is documented evidence of a studio exec who wrote extensive notes detailing all of these plot holes in the story, which was issued before a single frame of the movie was shot. For whatever reason, Piller and Berman neglected to ammend their script (maybe it was too late for a top-down rewrite?).
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Old November 30 2013, 01:31 AM   #139
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

Lance wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
I say it again and again in these threads: I don't know how the movie got to the filming stage without someone pointing out the huge flaws in the premise.
Well, that's the most bizarre thing of all: it didn't. According to various sources, there is documented evidence of a studio exec who wrote extensive notes detailing all of these plot holes in the story, which was issued before a single frame of the movie was shot. For whatever reason, Piller and Berman neglected to ammend their script (maybe it was too late for a top-down rewrite?).
They had a release date before Piller was ever hired to write the movie. There likely wasn't time for any more rewrites.
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Old December 13 2013, 06:06 PM   #140
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

I just randomly noticed that in Deep Space Nine, the other changeling LAAS gets sent to a planet called Kolaris III, which is the same planet on which they find B4's body parts in Nemesis.
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Old December 13 2013, 09:28 PM   #141
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
^But studios do take the money into account, which is why no more were made. It wasn't an aesthetic decision, it was a financial one.
All they had to do was not be such cheap fucks, thinking they could make a major motion picture for $30 mil, when most blockbuster movies start at around $150 mil. When they did it for nuTrek, they made their money back three fold. I wonder why? :roll eyes:

Ruafo wanted to just grab the rings and run, and burn the Baku--which the Federation wouldn't allow, and Dougherty told him as much
Too bad that didn't happen
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Old December 13 2013, 11:05 PM   #142
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
^But studios do take the money into account, which is why no more were made. It wasn't an aesthetic decision, it was a financial one.
All they had to do was not be such cheap fucks, thinking they could make a major motion picture for $30 mil, when most blockbuster movies start at around $150 mil. When they did it for nuTrek, they made their money back three fold. I wonder why? :roll eyes:

Ruafo wanted to just grab the rings and run, and burn the Baku--which the Federation wouldn't allow, and Dougherty told him as much
Too bad that didn't happen

the massive $100 million + budgets really didn't take off until the 2000s. And Star Trek: First Contact did very well on a budget of around $50 million. Nemesis wouldn't have done well whether it had a $30 million or $300 million budget. The problems were with the script and the state of the franchise at that time.
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Old December 13 2013, 11:41 PM   #143
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

From everything I've read over the years, Nemesis had a $60 million dollar budget. Of course, most of that probably went to Stewart and Spiner.
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Old December 14 2013, 04:36 AM   #144
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

Just to be fair, I'm going to post the opposite view(s) of fans and pro critics that did like Insurrection/Nemesis, mostly from Metacritic:

Critic Reviews
-George Powell, San Francisco Examiner

-Bruce Diones, The New Yorker

-Peter Stack, San Francisco Chronicle

-Keith Phipps, A.V. Club

User Reviews:

-HenryP1983

-Chris

-MarkW

Star Trek: Insurrection Reviews - Metacritic

From the site Whatculture!:

I recently read a list ranking the 12 Star Trek films from worst to best. To my surprise Insurrection was placed bottom. Surely 5 is the worst one?!

Seriously, like have you ever watched 5?

For me there are three categories of Trek film, ‘good’, ‘bad’ and ‘ok’. Insurrection falls into the ‘ok’ category (along with 3, 7, 10).

Following on from First Contact was always going to be tough, but it all had all the right ingredients. Jonathan Frakes returned to direct, Jerry Goldsmith returned for the music, it was the first film to be fully CGI for the ship scenes too. It could of been great.
5 Reasons Why Star Trek: Insurrection Isn’t That Bad
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Old December 14 2013, 04:46 AM   #145
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

TLDR; TLDR.
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Old December 14 2013, 06:47 AM   #146
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

Many of those blurbs are the very definition of damning with faint praise. Sure, I agree: They're okay movies. I expect more from Trek than merely okay.
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Old December 14 2013, 01:09 PM   #147
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

DonIago wrote: View Post
I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

TLDR; TLDR.
Has such a thing ever happened?

„Oh gee, you are right, now I actually like the film!“
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Old December 14 2013, 02:53 PM   #148
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

Probably not to that extent, but I like to think that if someone can point out a flaw in a position I've held that I can be open-minded enough to reconsider said position.
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Old December 14 2013, 03:13 PM   #149
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

I've been watching the Blu Rays 'round table' features recently. I do like how panellist Jeff Bond makes a few excellent points about the TNG movies I agree with: that "First Contact" was arguably the only movie which had true crossover audience appeal (even the overtly Star Trek elements and characters were all presented in a broad, easy-to-understand-if-you've-never-seen-the-series way), and that for a lot of people the disappointment with "Nemesis" may not totally come from that movie in itself, but more from the fact that it left TNG in a sour note and a lot of fans kind of think there should have been one more adventure for this crew to sign off their names ala "The Undiscovered Country".

As part 1 of a potential two-part the end of TNG storyline, NEM might even have been tolerable. But as it is, it leaves far too many strings left hanging for it to truely be 'A Generation's Final Journey'. We never really got the closure on TNG we needed, and NEM was a lousy way for TNG to end.
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Old December 14 2013, 10:52 PM   #150
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Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

TLDR; TLDR.
Has such a thing ever happened?

„Oh gee, you are right, now I actually like the film!“


seriously? You've NEVER changed or re-considered an opinion that you held on a work because of a persuasive and well-made argument?


opinions that don't change as a response to effective arguments aren't opinions so much as dogma.
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