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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 8 2013, 07:55 AM   #76
DigificWriter
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

^ I haven't seen anyone else in this thread suggest that LW offers a glimpse into a second canonical MU that is different from the TOS, DS9, and ENT one.
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Old December 8 2013, 08:06 AM   #77
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Sorry, I thought you were telling a joke, and I was playing along.

I honestly thought I was laughing with you.

My bad.

Similar I have posited that it is the evil Mirror Doctor starring in this story and all his stories about a nice Voyager are massive and cunning fabrications.

The Doctor's back up module falling through a portal is similar.
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Old December 8 2013, 08:16 AM   #78
DigificWriter
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

^
It's all good.

BTW, we've already seen that the Star Trek universe is a canonical Multiverse, and a second MU existing would be totally in line with that. It would also be totally in line with what the episode shows us.
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Old December 8 2013, 08:33 AM   #79
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

We have no reason not to think that there are many mirror universes than just the ones that always keep crossing over.
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Old December 8 2013, 12:06 PM   #80
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Sorry for bumping the thread, but I'm currently watching the episode and have a very different explanation for the apparent inconsistency re: The Doctor's backup module: the episode is set in an alternate version of the Mirror Universe, and The Doctor is pulled into it ala Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, and Uhura.
Read this old OP ...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...77&postcount=1

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Old December 8 2013, 05:52 PM   #81
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

But it's missing the point of the story to assume that the "evil Voyager" seen there represented an objective fact of that universe. The point was that history is always written with an agenda and a bias, often a very political one, and thus is often a misrepresentation of reality. Especially when it's based on fragmentary data, leaving people to fill in the gaps with their own preconceptions and pet theories.
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Old December 8 2013, 06:42 PM   #82
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

^ I don't think it misses the point at all; it just puts that point into a slightly different context.

Re: that post from 3 years ago, what I'm proposing is slightly different in that I'm proposing that LW shows us a MU that is not the same one we saw in TOS, DS9, and ENT, but an alternate one that, Parallels-style, exists alongside it, whereas, if I'm not mistaken, that post is proposing that LW takes place in the MU from Mirror, Mirror, et all.
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Old December 8 2013, 07:09 PM   #83
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
^ I don't think it misses the point at all; it just puts that point into a slightly different context.
Err, if the point is that history is inaccurate, and you're assuming that the episode is set in an alternate timeline where that portrayal of history really did happen as shown, that's not just a different context, that's erasing the message altogether. It's making the very mistake the episode warns against: taking history at face value rather than examining it critically. So yes, it is absolutely, humongously missing the point.
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Old December 8 2013, 07:42 PM   #84
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Voyager had messages now?

Sure I used to tear up at the end or Living Witness, but it didn't teach me anything.
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Old December 13 2013, 05:24 PM   #85
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

In regards to this "copying" versus "backing-up" debate:

There must be something particular about holographic quantum computing that disallows simultaneous processes from the same core. Kind of a conservation of process/energy.

Which means that the doctor was not active 700 years in the future, or computer science achieved a workaround to the problem.

I have also thought that the Living Witness doctor was not really a backup at all, but just an echo in the storage medium that the aliens managed to activate.
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Old December 13 2013, 06:14 PM   #86
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Tyberius wrote: View Post
In regards to this "copying" versus "backing-up" debate:

There must be something particular about holographic quantum computing that disallows simultaneous processes from the same core. Kind of a conservation of process/energy.

Which means that the doctor was not active 700 years in the future, or computer science achieved a workaround to the problem.

I have also thought that the Living Witness doctor was not really a backup at all, but just an echo in the storage medium that the aliens managed to activate.
Here's the problem. The Doctor, in one episode, almost crashed out of existence due to a lack of available memory. That is, he got so complex he was using too much of Voyager's on board memory. So how could you have a back up with all of his experiences, thoughts, etc? Unless the code can be compressed when it isn't active, taking up far less room.
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Old December 13 2013, 06:18 PM   #87
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Mistral wrote: View Post
WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Its hard for me to imagine, given the way technolagy works in Star trek, that by the 32 century, the federation hasnt colonized most of the galaxy, if not most of this galactic cluster.

Leaving that aside... Any ideas what kind of welcome the Archive of the doctor, would recieve when he got home?

Reintegration with the doctor himself, perhaps, if hes still online?
Here's my take on it: http://adastrafanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=62
I can't help banging my own drum on the subject. It contains a lot of answers to the questions asked here that would take too long to re-write.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:08 PM   #88
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Mistral wrote: View Post
Tyberius wrote: View Post
In regards to this "copying" versus "backing-up" debate:

There must be something particular about holographic quantum computing that disallows simultaneous processes from the same core. Kind of a conservation of process/energy.

Which means that the doctor was not active 700 years in the future, or computer science achieved a workaround to the problem.

I have also thought that the Living Witness doctor was not really a backup at all, but just an echo in the storage medium that the aliens managed to activate.
Here's the problem. The Doctor, in one episode, almost crashed out of existence due to a lack of available memory. That is, he got so complex he was using too much of Voyager's on board memory. So how could you have a back up with all of his experiences, thoughts, etc? Unless the code can be compressed when it isn't active, taking up far less room.
I don't think there actually is a backup. Or at least a backup as we know it.

I think the Living Witness was anything but. He was just a small subset of the real doctor, an echo, electron residue in some storage medium somewhere. Of course he believed he was everything the real doctor was, there was nothing to compare him to.

Holographic computing itself would be difficult to back up. You are using a universe creating trick of physics to make an otherwise uncreatable process. How do you back it up when it really doesn't exist? If you shut it down, it goes back to square one.

Throw in a little quantum computing where the pathways that hold the process cannot be the same, or even measured, lest they be altered and an actual backup or true copy become literally impossible. The act of initiating the backup would change the process and the final output would then also not be the same.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:29 PM   #89
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

Tyberius wrote: View Post
I don't think there actually is a backup. Or at least a backup as we know it.
My take is that while it's true that they failed in a previous attempt to backup The Doctor, they didn't quit after that falure and continued to try, eventually (at some point) creating a backup.

If at first you don't suceed, try try again.

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Old December 14 2013, 12:25 PM   #90
F. King Daniel
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Re: Living witness, Implausible?

In an unseen adventure the Voyager crew aquire magical alien tech with which to backup the doc.

Then they get space-mugged and it's stolen.

"Living Witness" happens a gajillion years later.
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