RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,549
Posts: 5,513,488
Members: 25,144
Currently online: 563
Newest member: A.E.Andres

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: red pill or blue pill
Blue pill - stay in the simulated reality in blissful ignorance. 9 39.13%
Red pill - "wake up" from the simulated reality and join the free humans in Zion. 14 60.87%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 13 2013, 04:41 AM   #46
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

One of the points I was trying to make was, that people should have the right to choose to willingly live in the Matrix if they so desire. In the original film, Morpheus apparently did not agree - his mission seemed to be to completely destroy the Matrix and wake everybody up by force, whether or not they wanted it. At least when the trilogy was over, there was peace, and those who actually wanted to live in the Matrix (like I would) were allowed to do so freely.
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 03:14 PM   #47
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Tosk wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Assuming the real world is a simulation (which is quite different from the matrix as depicted - the prison/zoo), I can assure you I didn't choose to live here because it has better cuisine (or better clothes or a boring, dead-end job, or a boring life with no perspectives whatsoever, etc). Indeed, no choice was offered.
No choice that you know of. The whole point of the question is that Blue-Pillers would never know the choice they had made. They would go back to living the rest of their life unaware. If you have a boring life or job, you do something about it. Or not, just like the real real world.
First, as established in the movie, if you take the blue pill you wake up the next morning and beleive whatever you wish about said event you still remember.

Second, you're confusing the depicted matrix with the real world.
If I have a boring job in the real world, I can do something about it.
If you have a boring job and life in the matrix, you can't do anything about that - all jobs/lives there are pointless treading water. And if you are really determined about trying to do something about it, if you try to exit the stereotype imposed upon you, all you get for your trouble is a lobotomy or termination, courtesy of your masters.
Which part of the matrix being a sterile prison that imposes conformity don't you understand?
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 03:29 PM   #48
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
If you have a boring job and life in the matrix, you can't do anything about that - all jobs/lives there are pointless treading water. And if you are really determined about trying to do something about it, if you try to exit the stereotype imposed upon you, all you get for your trouble is a lobotomy or termination, courtesy of your masters.
There is absolutely no evidence of any of that.
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 04:03 PM   #49
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
If you have a boring job and life in the matrix, you can't do anything about that - all jobs/lives there are pointless treading water. And if you are really determined about trying to do something about it, if you try to exit the stereotype imposed upon you, all you get for your trouble is a lobotomy or termination, courtesy of your masters.
There is absolutely no evidence of any of that.
In the trilogy they glossed over it, in Enter the Matrix, Matrix Online, Path of Neo and the short lived WB site giving the backstory, there are dozens of layers of authority down from Agents.

Each layer has a function, to keep the core program running by removing any "anomaly" that might cause a ripple of extreme variables. If that meant deleting anything from a family pet to a building, it was down in a way that didn't raise much suspicion, but they were removed and everyone's memory altered to reflect it.

The Animatrix has an episode devoted to a subtle reprogramming, a building rather than a person, but they're capable of both.

The Oracle gave humanity a "limited" choice, the ability to feel on a subconscious level that they're making their own decisions, but in truth they aren't, the Architect balances it by keeping those choices severely limited.

Everyone inside is on a leash, and the programs inside the Matrix have heard or seen little of their masters in Zero One for centuries, they take it upon themselves to do what they need to protect both.

If a human dies, they grow another one and alter the program, they see it as a day to day function. We're batteries, not people, to them.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 04:07 PM   #50
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
If you have a boring job and life in the matrix, you can't do anything about that - all jobs/lives there are pointless treading water. And if you are really determined about trying to do something about it, if you try to exit the stereotype imposed upon you, all you get for your trouble is a lobotomy or termination, courtesy of your masters.
There is absolutely no evidence of any of that.
In the trilogy they glossed over it, in Enter the Matrix, Matrix Online, Path of Neo and the short lived WB site giving the backstory, there are dozens of layers of authority down from Agents.
Hmm. Well, I have never seen any of those (I hate to say this, but...are they canon? ). I'm only going by what I see in the films. And in them, I can only conclude that Matrix life is much like ours. "What Mister Fandango said", for example.

Also, if everyone in the Matrix is a robotic slave, then why would they have civilian police forces? Think about it.
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 04:19 PM   #51
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

^ To issue traffic citations, support pastry shop cooks, and serve as visible symbols of authority?


Tosk wrote: View Post
Why are you content to assume so much regarding Zion but so unwilling to accept that there is "culture" in the Matrix?

The sweaty dance-rave-orgy of Matrix 2 certainly doesn't make me want to live there.
Fair question; like I said about the world of the Matrix, this is my subjective interpretation at play. The Council scenes and members particularly remind me of the sort of Bay Area hippies I grew up with, so I may feel more of an instinctive affinity for Zion and its inhabitants than others.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 04:42 PM   #52
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
I hate to say this, but...are they canon

Also, if everyone in the Matrix is a robotic slave, then why would they have civilian police forces? Think about it.
The Path of Neo is the only tie in media that isn't considered canon, the rest are. The Matrix Online's background history and files are given slightly more credence than The Animatrix which is canon but stylistically different for each segment, so the 'look' of it isn't

And the idea is to create as realistic a world as possible, law enforcement exists mainly to keep up appearances, and partly to have the humans keep each other in line and lessen the burdon on the programs. And have a police state of controlable law enforcement spying on humans, armed, used to taking orders, and can take them over at a moments notice.

As Neo said, just layers of control.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 11:33 AM   #53
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post

There is absolutely no evidence of any of that.
In the trilogy they glossed over it, in Enter the Matrix, Matrix Online, Path of Neo and the short lived WB site giving the backstory, there are dozens of layers of authority down from Agents.
[...]I'm only going by what I see in the films. And in them, I can only conclude that Matrix life is much like ours. "What Mister Fandango said", for example.[...]
Chemahkuu already explained in detail how wrong you are with your wishful thinking, as per canon.

But - you actually thought that the matrix is like the real world, based on what you saw and was established in the movies? That all jobs/lives there are not pointless treading water? Really?
I guess this is what happens when one is hopelessly dependent on cuisine, desperately trying to play the 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' game, unable to process an unfamiliar reality to the point of preferring to be a slave.


What about having children in the matrix?
You may even entertain some wishful thinking about the machines allowing conjugal visits between the plugged in pod people, or conducting studies about which people want children in order to give them one.
Let me disabuse you of such notions: the most efficient procedure (meaning, almost certainly, the pocedure used) is for the machines to give the crop of newgrown children to random people, followed by rewriting the memories of said people, making them believe they wanted/had the children.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton

Last edited by Edit_XYZ; December 14 2013 at 11:55 AM.
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 11:55 AM   #54
Killer Frost
Commodore
 
Killer Frost's Avatar
 
Location: TayLaLaLa
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
And the idea is to create as realistic a world as possible, law enforcement exists mainly to keep up appearances, And have a police state of controllable law enforcement spying, armed, used to taking orders, and can take them(people) over at a moments notice.

...just layers of control.
Seems right.

I edited to fit the real world.
__________________
La la
La la la la
La la
La la la
Killer Frost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15 2013, 01:14 PM   #55
Astraboy
Ensign
 
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

I would choose whichever pill would help me forget the 2 Matrix sequels.
Astraboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15 2013, 07:28 PM   #56
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
The Path of Neo is the only tie in media that isn't considered canon, the rest are. The Matrix Online's background history and files are given slightly more credence than The Animatrix which is canon but stylistically different for each segment, so the 'look' of it isn't.
This all sounds a lot less interesting than the movies themselves, where the apparent conceit was that the Matrix is exactly the same as our world - all of our art and culture is just an illusion. If it's by design more bland than ours that defeats one of the most interesting parts of it (I mean, aside from leather and action and bullet-time of course).

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
I guess this is what happens when one is hopelessly dependent on cuisine, desperately trying to play the 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' game, unable to process an unfamiliar reality to the point of preferring to be a slave.
This is childish.

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
What about having children in the matrix?
You may even entertain some wishful thinking about the machines allowing conjugal visits between the plugged in pod people, or conducting studies about which people want children in order to give them one.
Doctor Who easily dealt with the question of children in a Matrix-like environment and even made it a subplot. If your whole system is built on illusion and memory alteration it would be, um, child's play.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 14 2014, 04:11 AM   #57
Gary7
Rear Admiral
 
Gary7's Avatar
 
Location: Near Manhattan ··· in an alternate reality
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

If only Keanu Reeves followed through with his Neo fragrance line. I'd have bought it.

__________________
Remembering Ensign Mallory.
Gary7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15 2014, 12:44 AM   #58
Leviathan
Commander
 
Leviathan's Avatar
 
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Well it depends on a key point:

Are either of the pills bacon flavored?
Leviathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15 2014, 04:07 PM   #59
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

Only raspberry and blueberry, sorry.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15 2014, 04:51 PM   #60
bountifulboxesjeg
Vice Admiral
 
bountifulboxesjeg's Avatar
 
Location: bbjeg
Re: The Matrix: the red pill or the blue pill

The fact that there is no bacon in the real world is starting to make me want to change pills.
bountifulboxesjeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.