RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 142,321
Posts: 5,555,264
Members: 25,272
Currently online: 543
Newest member: zia tiger

TrekToday headlines

New Shatner Priceline Commercial
By: T'Bonz on Jan 29

Pine Joins Netflix Series
By: T'Bonz on Jan 29

Ortiz Art Mugs
By: T'Bonz on Jan 28

Ingham Passes
By: T'Bonz on Jan 28

Star Trek Online Celebrates Five Years
By: T'Bonz on Jan 27

WizKids/Star Trek Online Caption Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jan 26

No Quinto In Heroes Reborn
By: T'Bonz on Jan 26

Pine Responds To Pegg Writer Announcement
By: T'Bonz on Jan 26

Retro Review: Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
By: Michelle on Jan 24

Urban in Aquaman?
By: T'Bonz on Jan 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 13 2013, 06:00 AM   #16
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

gturner wrote: View Post
Well, anyone who starts out their business plan with "steal somebody else's tools" is probably not going to do very well, probably astonished to find out there are other people called "competitors."

And of course, what dooms such enterprises is simple logic. As soon as they take over the means of production (aka "stealing someone else's tools"), they realize they could just sell the tools, pocket the money as 100% profit, and not have to work. ie. If a stewardess steals an airliner, does she a) give herself a moderate raise and keep serving drinks or b) sell it to Qatar Airways for $100 million quick dollars and develop a profound coke habit in Vegas? The reason this didn't entirely happen under communism was that their revolution simultaneously destroyed the market for stolen factories.
Of course there isn't anything in cooperativism that mandates theft. They usually raise their own capital or buy the company outright. And cooperativism can function under capitalism as well as under socialism-anarchism-(true) libertarianism-(real) communism. But I digress.

And let's cast aside your fake hypothetical scenarios (a pathological idiosyncracy of the proprietarians) and deal with where the real theft is occuring starting with the wage system (ripping off the employees), gentrification, austerity (more rip offs), union busting, powerful lobbies, PR machines, sovereignty busting organizations like the WTO, IMF and World Bank. Assasination of democratically elected leaders (remember Presidente Arbenz and United Fruit? Remeber Mossadeq and BP? No, you probably don't as you probably never bothered to find out.) Tax cuts for the wealthy that do nothing for the real generators of wealth (the workers). Wall Street crash of 1929 and subsequent wars. Deregulation and the economic collapse of 2008. Not to mention the IMF collapse of 2001, which forced displaced workers in Argentina to take desperate action.

Then there's the history of workers' self-management itself, and how it has been, with few exceptions, brutally suppressed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-management

As for "communism" as fools like you still call it, any decent historian could explain to you that the USSR, for example, was a state capitalist society. Ever heard of Lenin's NEP during the Tenth party congress? I'm guessing not.

"The New Economic Policy was universally referred to as NEP, and the 'privateers' who flourished under it were known as 'Nepmen'. It was a form of mixed economy, with an overwhelmingly private agriculture, plus legalized private trade and small scale private manufacturing." An Economic History of the U.S.S.R. by Alec Nove

Oh, and one more quote:

"No one can really deny that the profit system is still what it always was: a way of redistributing money to those already on the top of the chain." The Democracy Project by David Graeber
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 06:24 AM   #17
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
And with the way things are fast going here with technological unemployment, severe wage disparity, environmental crisis, costly wars & surveillance state, dysfunctional infrastructure and all the social and medical ills
Can't tell if you're describing 2013 or 1913 here.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 09:04 AM   #18
Locutus of Bored
Person of Disinterest
 
Locutus of Bored's Avatar
 
Location: We aren't watching, because you're boring
Re: Worker Ownership for the 99% - A Good Idea

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
As for "communism" as fools like you still call it
Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.
__________________
'First Contact' is the tale of a man who just wants to cash in on his creation so he can get wasted on an island full of naked women, but his fans keep insisting that he's a saintly visionary who has profoundly altered the world. AKA - 'I Don't Want to be a Statue: The Gene Roddenberry Story.'
Locutus of Bored is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.