RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,646
Posts: 5,428,246
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 579
Newest member: Damix

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 12 2013, 06:29 AM   #91
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Lance wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I think that TOS was far more the Kirk, Spock and McCoy show than VOY was the KJ, 7 and EMH show though.
There are only 3 names in the opening credits of TOS because they are the only stars of the show. The others are in the closing credits and were only meant as a supporting cast. It was only due to fans and films that they also got starring roles.
While I don't disagree (it was how the system rolled at the time), I do think that, for example, Jimmy Doohan's agent really should've been pushing for better billing for his client. Scotty was a very firm number 4 IMO, and probably about as integral to most plots as Bones was.

Actually that's a point. People always talk about 'the big three', but even in TOS I reckon Kirk and Spock are about equal, with McCoy being far less directly a 'star' than either of them. Even after he was promoted to opening credits.
I think for Jimmy, it comes down to budget.
Trek wasn't a big production show originally, I don't think they may have been able to afford a pay bump for him.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
To be fair, all the Starfleet personnel got a lot of screen time in scenes that had nothing to do with them just because they were on the bridge or in the away team.

I do think Kes was more popular than Neelix, Kim, Chakotay, she was however the hardest to write for and hardest to market. I think that must have had something to do with the decision to axe her. She couldn't be naturally involved in Starfleet scenes because she wasn't Starfleet, and she couldn't be naturally involved in diplomatic outreach situations because she wasn't experienced. Also due to her age and inexperience you can't easily have her in sexual situations without bordering icky. To use her they had to make stuff for her to do. Whereas Neelix is the 'Outgoing wacky' type so they could just make him do whatever they wanted.
No way was Kes more popular than Chakotay.
I don't care how people feel about his acting, before Seven, Chakotay was presented as the male sex symbol of the show. They died his hair to make him appear more youthful. You really think showing the characters ass in "Tattoo" really need to be a part of the story? You can't talk J/C sexual tension without him. It held the lady viewers for 7 years.

Neelix was never in the formula because he's the only full latex alien character on the show. His unique look kept him around. Imagine how dull a cast photo is without him, even B'Elanna Klingon features were softened to make her appear more human than alien.(Remember her bushy eyebrows and how she pushed her teeth out slightly when she spoke during the first few eps.?) Every Trek show needs an "Alien" Alien. Neelix was it. Popularity by being unique.

"People" magazine boosted Harry Kim's popularity. The publication is looked at far more than Star Trek.
"Sexist Single Men" issue? Once again, press hyped as a sex symbol for female viewers.

Kes had NOTHING in her corner compared to that. The show needed to get noticed, especially as the launching board for a new network. A sex symbol or unique look will do that. Kes was cute with her Tinkerbell look but it's not new nor exciting. So yes, I agree with your assessment of her not being marketable. She wasn't a sex symbol nor was she going to sell toys, T-Shirts & video games. That's the way the sci-fi market was trending at the time. Who was going to notice Kes when they had Xena to contend with?

At the same time, why waste the actresses time if they didn't feel compelled to write for her? If Jen Lien REALLY wanted to be a actress, isn't it unfair to her to keep her in a contract acting on a show that wasn't going allow her to fully use her skills? Why not let her go, so should could seek out another show or film that would. If Lien wanted too, she could have gone on to a brilliant film career and surpassed every single one of cast of Voyager. No reason why she couldn't have.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Considering how Chakotay, Tuvok, B'Ellanna, Neelix, and Kim all got the shaft. I think TPTB just didn't know what to do with any of those characters; in the situation they were in (lost in the DQ). They were all pretty much empty suits, whose roles could've been filled by any other crewman on VOY. Tom escapes the trap because he's written to be quirky and a jack-of-all/know-it-all character.
I disagree, I thought B'Elanna got great development. She was the only other character besides Seven & the Doc that had a clear defined, consistant and conclusive story arc. I think they real delved into the psyche of her character and Dawson bought such life to her, I found conviction in her. I think the writers were brilliant in their exploration of what it is to be a child of an interracial marriage and ask the question "Who am I?". I found it interesting that most viewers don't pick up on the fact she was bullied as a child for being Klingon, showing there is still racism in the Federation. I though she was the most real hands on character on the show.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; December 12 2013 at 07:49 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2013, 08:31 AM   #92
WarpCore
Lieutenant
 
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Lance wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I think that TOS was far more the Kirk, Spock and McCoy show than VOY was the KJ, 7 and EMH show though.
There are only 3 names in the opening credits of TOS because they are the only stars of the show. The others are in the closing credits and were only meant as a supporting cast. It was only due to fans and films that they also got starring roles.
While I don't disagree (it was how the system rolled at the time), I do think that, for example, Jimmy Doohan's agent really should've been pushing for better billing for his client. Scotty was a very firm number 4 IMO, and probably about as integral to most plots as Bones was.

Actually that's a point. People always talk about 'the big three', but even in TOS I reckon Kirk and Spock are about equal, with McCoy being far less directly a 'star' than either of them. Even after he was promoted to opening credits.
WarpCore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2013, 12:25 PM   #93
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

^ Interesting. I do think it supports my view that Doohan was (at least) respected for what he brought to the show, being rewarded with a greater slice of the pie even if that never was translated to him getting higher billing. 2-3 percentage points between him and McCoy is negligable really. I do really think that while Doohan obviously wasn't billed as a 'star' of the show, and he clearly felt more empathy to the lesser stars point-of-view than he did with Shatner The Superstar, in terms of character usage there's a clear schism between the top four (Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley and Doohan) and the "lesser players" (Takei, Nichols, Koenig).
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2013, 09:42 PM   #94
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

That is a good point, that just because Kes is more liked among the hardcore Trekkies who would watch the show anyway doesn't mean she was more interesting to the casual fans who might tune in or might not depending on the promo for that week.

But for a stretch in season three she seemed to have more stories revolved around her than anyone but Janeway or EMH. She just got less screen time because she was least likely to be put in a scene that had nothing to do with her because she was not Starfleet.

I think B'elana became far less interesting after about season two. I liked the way she was in Dreadnought but later seasons tended to focus a little more on her romance with Paris and a lot less on her technical genius or her anger issues.

Chakotay was considered a sex symbol?!
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2013, 10:06 PM   #95
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Women really like men who don't talk.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 01:15 AM   #96
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

^ They don't give us the CHANCE to talk.

(Did I say that out loud? )
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

Last edited by Mr. Laser Beam; December 13 2013 at 01:26 AM.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 08:08 AM   #97
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
That is a good point, that just because Kes is more liked among the hardcore Trekkies who would watch the show anyway doesn't mean she was more interesting to the casual fans who might tune in or might not depending on the promo for that week.
Exactly.
For a show to really be a hit, it needs that broader demographic. Fans and casual viewers because many times, a casual viewer can become the next generation of fan. Too keep a franchises going is to appeal to the younger audience. Wasn't that the idea in mind when they launched TNG?

But for a stretch in season three she seemed to have more stories revolved around her than anyone but Janeway or EMH. She just got less screen time because she was least likely to be put in a scene that had nothing to do with her because she was not Starfleet.
In retrospect, isn't it interesting how they did build her up just enough at the right time to give some emotional impact to her departure? Harry's death at the hands of the 8472 virus wouldn't of had that. There would be no teary eyes and no setting the message boards of fire with chat.
Buzzing about Voyager is free promotion.

I think B'elana became far less interesting after about season two. I liked the way she was in Dreadnought but later seasons tended to focus a little more on her romance with Paris and a lot less on her technical genius or her anger issues.
It's not a bad mood if you're always in it.
It's a personality.
(Thank you, Chris Rock for pointing out that one.)

I don't think B'Elanna was a tech genius but rather, she knew how to think outside the box.
Most of the what made her good was her ability to think on her feet in tight situations.
She didn't create much new but rather developed ways to get around problems, like how she figured out how to stop Dreadnaut was to out think it.
Watch "Timeless", she doesn't understand the slipsteam drive. Harry's fully in charge of that and the Delta Flyer project.
Even when it was rebuilt, Harry & Seven were again in charge of it as implied in "Drive".

Chakotay was considered a sex symbol?!
Seska wanted him
Janeway wanted him(..or at least that what the J/C'ers wanted)
B'Elanna has erotic dreams about him (remember?)
Seven used him as the best choice of the prefect mate

(Hint, hint) Yeah, they were pushing him as a sex symbol.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; December 13 2013 at 08:19 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 09:32 AM   #98
Mareika
Captain
 
Mareika's Avatar
 
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

exodus wrote: View Post

No way was Kes more popular than Chakotay.
[..] It held the lady viewers for 7 years.
Absolutely agree!!
I wouldn`t have become a Voyagerfan without Chakotay.
I loved him from the very first minute I saw him in Caretaker and I`m still a Voyagerfan only because of him.
Meanwhile I also like the other characters but my heart belongs to Chakotay.
Mareika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2013, 02:19 PM   #99
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

He has one of my toes, that's about it. But the Captain is fond of him so I enjoy him as one does a paramour's dog.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 03:49 AM   #100
borgboy
Fleet Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

I'm not sure I knew about the Peopls's Most Beautiful thing I had the time. I'm not really into magazines. I had no idea Harry was supposed to be this big sex symbol. I can't say as I recall the show captializing on that. If they kept him on because of that, shouldn't Harry have gotten lots of sexy shirtless scenes and romantic relationships?
If being non Starfleet was an issue, the writers could've had Janeway give Kes a field commission the way all the Marquis got. I'd have found it very believable that a bright hard working young woman like Kes could've been taking online versions of Starfleet classes. There could have been a good story or two with Kes facing the challenges of Starfleet Academy, with holodeck training classes, a holographic Boothby, etc.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 03:04 PM   #101
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

I vote HARRY in the silver catsuit, yeah. DECKER IT BABY!

__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 06:24 PM   #102
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Sometimes it baffles me what men women find attractive. I mean, Adam Levine's dorky half-beard thing actually works? If a rigid husky 40 year old and the perpetual 'Forgot to shave' look are attractive, I give up.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 08:45 PM   #103
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

It barely matters what a musician looks like.

Girls just want to #### the music.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2013, 11:22 PM   #104
borgboy
Fleet Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

As a man who likes men (and my taste can be pretty quirky I admit) I like funky facial hair as long as the guy can rock it.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 15 2013, 12:34 AM   #105
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Facial hair hotness is totally dependent on the individual. The one thing I never like is that little strip of hair that makes your chin look like it's had a brazillian. Oh and mustaches on their own just suck, stick a beard under it PLEASE.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.