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Old December 10 2013, 11:35 PM   #76
teacake
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

No every series would be a mess.

Because we don't all want the same thing and there have always been loud contrasting voices.

On the plus side if they were catering to everyone Janeway would have 7 and Chak and it would be whole different starship..
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Old December 11 2013, 05:11 AM   #77
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post
I don't know about that. I think Kes still had more fans than Harry even after she left the show. Popularity isn't always measured in screen time.
I trust those that actually worked on the production knew fan demographic better than us to make the choice they did.
I don't think they did. If they had, Neelix would have been dumped because I remember him being very unpopular in those years. Not that I wanted to se him dumped. I like him.

And if they had had any ideas of fan demographics or the opinion of fans, they would never had come up with "Fury" or the Chakotay/Seven relationship.

As for Kes's popularity, she had bunch of true fans in those years and she was more popular than Neelix and Harry. And yes, there were many fans who were sad to see her go and who wanted her back.
I also don't expect Kes fans to have a non-bias opinion on the matter either.

borgboy wrote: View Post
If producers were that good at knowing what the audience wants then every series would be a hit.
That doesn't even make sense in relation to the subject.
You're taking one character from one show and trying to relate it to a broad generalization.
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Old December 11 2013, 05:17 AM   #78
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

exodus wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
I trust those that actually worked on the production knew fan demographic better than us to make the choice they did.
I don't think they did. If they had, Neelix would have been dumped because I remember him being very unpopular in those years. Not that I wanted to se him dumped. I like him.

And if they had had any ideas of fan demographics or the opinion of fans, they would never had come up with "Fury" or the Chakotay/Seven relationship.

As for Kes's popularity, she had bunch of true fans in those years and she was more popular than Neelix and Harry. And yes, there were many fans who were sad to see her go and who wanted her back.
I also don't expect Kes fans to have a non-bias opinion on the matter either.
I'm not quite sure what that means, or what the point is. We all have our biases, but it doesn't make our opinions less valid. Even as a Kes fan I think I can accurately, more or less, guage fan reaction to her. I get that she's nowhere near as popular as Seven, or Janeway for example, but I think she's more popular than Neelix and Harry Kim.
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Old December 11 2013, 05:19 AM   #79
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

borgboy wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post

I don't think they did. If they had, Neelix would have been dumped because I remember him being very unpopular in those years. Not that I wanted to se him dumped. I like him.

And if they had had any ideas of fan demographics or the opinion of fans, they would never had come up with "Fury" or the Chakotay/Seven relationship.

As for Kes's popularity, she had bunch of true fans in those years and she was more popular than Neelix and Harry. And yes, there were many fans who were sad to see her go and who wanted her back.
I also don't expect Kes fans to have a non-bias opinion on the matter either.
I'm not quite sure what that means, or what the point is. We all have our biases, but it doesn't make our opinions less valid. Even as a Kes fan I think I can accurately, more or less, guage fan reaction to her. I get that she's nowhere near as popular as Seven, or Janeway for example, but I think she's more popular than Neelix and Harry Kim.
Doesn't change the fact she got the boot, does it?

Besides, I thought the title of this thread was "Seven of Nine" not "the Kes pity party" yet again.
Could have sworn we covered all this the "Fury rewrite" AND the "What if Garrett had left instead of Jen" post.
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Old December 11 2013, 05:51 AM   #80
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

exodus wrote: View Post

Plus, when you do a marketing campagine that puts her image everywhere to get an audience to tune in, then as a studio you wanna try and get your money back. That means giving folk what they tuned in for.
Good point. I always thought The Sarah Connor Chronicles kinda dropped the ball there, marketing-wise. They made Summer Glau's sexy cyborg character the focus of all the ads and publicity, as opposed to the actual main character, Sarah Connor, which was just going to confuse and annoy people who tuned in for The Sexy Summer Glau Cyborg Hour. You can't hype one thing and then serve up something else.

They should have either made the Teen Terminatrix the star of the show, or come up with an ad campaign that played up Sarah Connor. But you can't have it both ways.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:08 AM   #81
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post

Plus, when you do a marketing campagine that puts her image everywhere to get an audience to tune in, then as a studio you wanna try and get your money back. That means giving folk what they tuned in for.
Good point. I always thought The Sarah Connor Chronicles kinda dropped the ball there, marketing-wise. They made Summer Glau's sexy cyborg character the focus of all the ads and publicity, as opposed to the actual main character, Sarah Connor, which was just going to confuse and annoy people who tuned in for The Sexy Summer Glau Cyborg Hour. You can't hype one thing and then serve up something else.

They should have either made the Teen Terminatrix the star of the show, or come up with an ad campaign that played up Sarah Connor. But you can't have it both ways.
Excellent comparison.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:25 AM   #82
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Aren't the marketing and creative departments separate?

I remember David Cross in an outtake ranting at his superiors that the show kept winning awards but mysteriously could not make any money, and that some one up the chain at the network was a ####ing idiot.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:22 PM   #83
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

exodus wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
I also don't expect Kes fans to have a non-bias opinion on the matter either.
I'm not quite sure what that means, or what the point is. We all have our biases, but it doesn't make our opinions less valid. Even as a Kes fan I think I can accurately, more or less, guage fan reaction to her. I get that she's nowhere near as popular as Seven, or Janeway for example, but I think she's more popular than Neelix and Harry Kim.
Doesn't change the fact she got the boot, does it?

Besides, I thought the title of this thread was "Seven of Nine" not "the Kes pity party" yet again.
Could have sworn we covered all this the "Fury rewrite" AND the "What if Garrett had left instead of Jen" post.
And I guess that there are some who are very happy about that.

But let me point out that I don't think that the Kes fans are more biased than others. I won't ddeny the fact that characters like Janeway were more popular than Kes, just that Kes wasn't that unpopular which some people claim. I still remember Neelix being the most disliked, in fact, he had almost Wesley Crusher status on Voyager and that Kes was more appreciated than Kim too.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:28 PM   #84
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

No matter how bad Wesley got, you could just shut your eyes and think about Stand By Me.
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Old December 11 2013, 10:53 PM   #85
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

To be fair, all the Starfleet personnel got a lot of screen time in scenes that had nothing to do with them just because they were on the bridge or in the away team.

I do think Kes was more popular than Neelix, Kim, Chakotay, she was however the hardest to write for and hardest to market. I think that must have had something to do with the decision to axe her. She couldn't be naturally involved in Starfleet scenes because she wasn't Starfleet, and she couldn't be naturally involved in diplomatic outreach situations because she wasn't experienced. Also due to her age and inexperience you can't easily have her in sexual situations without bordering icky. To use her they had to make stuff for her to do. Whereas Neelix is the 'Outgoing wacky' type so they could just make him do whatever they wanted.
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Old December 11 2013, 10:56 PM   #86
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Stand By Me just makes me think of River Phoenix being dead.
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Old December 12 2013, 02:03 AM   #87
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Wow! Corey Feldman isn't dead!!!!

Yes, Corey Haim is dead, but I thought they both were.

Watching the shitty failed sitcom We Are Men, I kept yelling at the TV "put some fucking clothes on Jerry O'Connel!!!!" Because 30 percent of every episode was conducted near or in a hottub... But that guy wakes up every morning realising that he's not fat!

God bless him.
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Old December 12 2013, 02:28 AM   #88
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Hot tubs are completely disgusting because of you know what.

Corey does seem like a name that is doomed
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Old December 12 2013, 04:47 AM   #89
Lance
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

exodus wrote: View Post
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I think that TOS was far more the Kirk, Spock and McCoy show than VOY was the KJ, 7 and EMH show though.
There are only 3 names in the opening credits of TOS because they are the only stars of the show. The others are in the closing credits and were only meant as a supporting cast. It was only due to fans and films that they also got starring roles.
While I don't disagree (it was how the system rolled at the time), I do think that, for example, Jimmy Doohan's agent really should've been pushing for better billing for his client. Scotty was a very firm number 4 IMO, and probably about as integral to most plots as Bones was.

Actually that's a point. People always talk about 'the big three', but even in TOS I reckon Kirk and Spock are about equal, with McCoy being far less directly a 'star' than either of them. Even after he was promoted to opening credits.
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Old December 12 2013, 05:21 AM   #90
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Adding 7 of 9 to VOY was the best decision for the show. It really picked up in it's 4th and 5th seasons. While VOY went in to decline in the 6th and 7th season IMO. I am grateful for the entertainment 7's story provided. Minus the whole her and Chakotay thing... YUCK. The "7 learns a lesson" thing did get annoying. It was still more compelling that stories about vapid Chakotay, boring Kim, missed opportunity Tuvok, annoying Neelix, and bitchy B'Ellanna.

Considering how Chakotay, Tuvok, B'Ellanna, Neelix, and Kim all got the shaft. I think TPTB just didn't know what to do with any of those characters; in the situation they were in (lost in the DQ). They were all pretty much empty suits, whose roles could've been filled by any other crewman on VOY. Tom escapes the trap because he's written to be quirky and a jack-of-all/know-it-all character.
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