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Old December 9 2013, 05:46 PM   #16
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Khan #3 Review

I've not read the comics yet so can't really comment buuuuuut, it does seem strange that the comics are so quick to ignore TV/film canon and the 2233 timeline divergence point when Into Darkness bent over backwards to explain why Khan was found and revived earlier and even (in a deleted scene) why Carol has a British accent.
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Old December 10 2013, 01:31 AM   #17
Pauln6
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Re: Khan #3 Review

In fairness to the comic, part of the problem was the TV shows reluctance to accept the Eugenics wars in the fictional timeline and intertwine them with the time travel episodes to some degree at least, even if only e.g. Rain mentioning them or something.
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Old December 10 2013, 04:08 AM   #18
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
In fairness to the comic, part of the problem was the TV shows reluctance to accept the Eugenics wars in the fictional timeline and intertwine them with the time travel episodes to some degree at least, even if only e.g. Rain mentioning them or something.
I don't follow your logic. If anything, that makes it even more inexplicable that the comic would portray the Eugenics Wars as a massive nuclear conflict that devastated the US.
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Old December 10 2013, 09:41 AM   #19
Pauln6
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Christopher wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
In fairness to the comic, part of the problem was the TV shows reluctance to accept the Eugenics wars in the fictional timeline and intertwine them with the time travel episodes to some degree at least, even if only e.g. Rain mentioning them or something.
I don't follow your logic. If anything, that makes it even more inexplicable that the comic would portray the Eugenics Wars as a massive nuclear conflict that devastated the US.
What I mean is they're telling a story about the Eugenics war with no canon to call from. It doesn't surprise me that the writers forgot about a couple of time travel stories where characters went back in time post Eugenics but didn't reference the consequences.

Of course if Khan is exaggerating the nuclear conflict, America, as a large nation, could have had much of it infrastructure intact after the war. It depends how many nukes fell, whether they fell near any of the places we see in the time travel stories, and whether our heroes are already in an alternate timeline due to Braxton's interference.
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Old December 10 2013, 03:52 PM   #20
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
What I mean is they're telling a story about the Eugenics war with no canon to call from. It doesn't surprise me that the writers forgot about a couple of time travel stories where characters went back in time post Eugenics but didn't reference the consequences.
But as I've already said, there's significantly more evidence than that, even if it's indirect evidence. If the nuclear war of the 2050s was World War III rather than IV, then the Eugenics Wars can't have been anywhere near as massive.


Of course if Khan is exaggerating the nuclear conflict, America, as a large nation, could have had much of it infrastructure intact after the war.
But again, if he's exaggerating, surely his listeners would know that, because it's not the sort of thing history would overlook.
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Old December 10 2013, 07:57 PM   #21
JD
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
In fairness to the comic, part of the problem was the TV shows reluctance to accept the Eugenics wars in the fictional timeline and intertwine them with the time travel episodes to some degree at least, even if only e.g. Rain mentioning them or something.
I don't follow your logic. If anything, that makes it even more inexplicable that the comic would portray the Eugenics Wars as a massive nuclear conflict that devastated the US.
What I mean is they're telling a story about the Eugenics war with no canon to call from. It doesn't surprise me that the writers forgot about a couple of time travel stories where characters went back in time post Eugenics but didn't reference the consequences.

Of course if Khan is exaggerating the nuclear conflict, America, as a large nation, could have had much of it infrastructure intact after the war. It depends how many nukes fell, whether they fell near any of the places we see in the time travel stories, and whether our heroes are already in an alternate timeline due to Braxton's interference.
I haven't read the comics yet either, but I would find it hard to believe that cities like LA and Detroit would be unaffected by nukes being dropped in the US. I could see Detroit not being a target, but you think it would still have some kind of affect on the city. As for LA, I would think that would be one of the first targets anybody would go after.
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Old December 10 2013, 08:08 PM   #22
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Re: Khan #3 Review

JD wrote: View Post
As for LA, I would think that would be one of the first targets anybody would go after.
Actually I'd think aspiring conquerors would have a vested interest in preserving the mass-media and entertainment infrastructure, so as to coopt it as a vehicle for propaganda and bread & circuses.
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Old December 10 2013, 08:46 PM   #23
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Military targets are more likely. There's not much to be gained by screwing up the infrastructure of the country you want to conquer as the US discovered in Iraq. Not that I have any idea idea where the US military bases are.

But I agree, I think it's fair to say that Khan's description of 'chaos and barbarism' from 'coast to coast' is not reflected in any of the time travel shows post 1992/ pre-mid 2100 we saw, albeit that those travellers were being plopped into a parallel past according to many worlds theory. It's possible that the writers conflated the Eugenics Wars and WWIII.

Still, Star Trek is set in a fictional world so any assumptions about how much fictional information they have from any particular era is purely speculative. Having said that, if Bride of Chaotica survived the nuclear strike, it could not have been that bad. Maybe Khan's definition of 'chaos and barbarism' was because the Prada and Guccii stores and Fox network were bombed out.
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Old December 10 2013, 09:29 PM   #24
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
It's possible that the writers conflated the Eugenics Wars and WWIII.
So did the writers of Space Seed.

Honestly I'm not too bent out of shape if they ignore the other shows and movies I really only care about consistency towards Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness and a lesser extent with Star Trek the game if it comes up and even at that only in so far with how consistent any Star Trek production is with another Star Trek production.
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Old December 10 2013, 10:09 PM   #25
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
It's possible that the writers conflated the Eugenics Wars and WWIII.
So did the writers of Space Seed.

Honestly I'm not too bent out of shape if they ignore the other shows and movies I really only care about consistency towards Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness and a lesser extent with Star Trek the game if it comes up and even at that only in so far with how consistent any Star Trek production is with another Star Trek production.
I'm not too worried either. Treating the Nu-Universe as its own isolated universe is the only way I can stay as sane as I was before the reboot, which isn't saying much.

Then my Youtube Star Trek comic includes B5, Alien, and Alien Nation. I'm going to see if I can work in Farscape and Twiki from Buck Rogers. I'm clearly in no position to throw stones
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Old December 11 2013, 09:22 PM   #26
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
But I agree, I think it's fair to say that Khan's description of 'chaos and barbarism' from 'coast to coast' is not reflected in any of the time travel shows post 1992/ pre-mid 2100 we saw, albeit that those travellers were being plopped into a parallel past according to many worlds theory. It's possible that the writers conflated the Eugenics Wars and WWIII.

Still, Star Trek is set in a fictional world so any assumptions about how much fictional information they have from any particular era is purely speculative. Having said that, if Bride of Chaotica survived the nuclear strike, it could not have been that bad. Maybe Khan's definition of 'chaos and barbarism' was because the Prada and Guccii stores and Fox network were bombed out.
I suspect such to be the case.

Given the references to Bride of Chaotica, the situation post-Eugenics Wars in places as diverse as Los Angeles, Detroit, and San Francisco as seen across the various series, the fact that we know of Buck Bokai and why he mattered to professional baseball in North America, the survival of hockey as a sport...the Eugenics Wars had to have been public but relatively self-restrained compared to WW 3.

Also, the idea of all of Canada as part of the "Great North Wasteland"?

No. Just...no.
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Last edited by DEWLine; December 11 2013 at 09:24 PM. Reason: stringing together facts and patriotic quasi-humour
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Old December 11 2013, 09:27 PM   #27
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Also: Newfoundland as an Augment training camp as mapped in # 2?

Wondering what Trekkers from Newfoundland think of that.
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Old December 12 2013, 03:47 PM   #28
mattman8907
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Re: Khan #3 Review

i was reading #2 and #3 and it made me think: Who the hell would sink so low that they would Worship Khan and his merry band of bad guys?
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Old December 12 2013, 03:58 PM   #29
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Re: Khan #3 Review

I am really liking this series, I think they are making a very interesting Khan as well as making Into Darkness a better film for it. I just wish some of this story could have been in the film.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:15 PM   #30
USS Intrepid
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Re: Khan #3 Review

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Military targets are more likely. There's not much to be gained by screwing up the infrastructure of the country you want to conquer as the US discovered in Iraq. Not that I have any idea idea where the US military bases are.
San Diego has a large naval base, and isn't all that far from Los Angeles. I don't think LA would come off lightly in a nuclear conflict.
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