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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old December 9 2013, 04:28 AM   #136
The Wormhole
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Eccleston not returning as the Ninth Doctor is the most obvious missing element
Especially considering the Moment is trying to show the War Doctor what he'll become if he goes ahead and obliterates Gallifrey. You'd think the first incarnation to deal with the guilt and torment over how the Time War ended would be a pivotal one for the Moment's presentation. Hell, imagine the scene where the War Doctor asks about how many children were on Gallifrey at the end were Eccleston in it. He still hasn't brought himself to finding out, Tennant knows the number, and Smith has forgotten it.

Yeah, I know, it's pointless to speculate on what could have been, especially considering there likely wasn't very much of a chance of Eccleston returning for this. But one can still imagine anyway.
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Old December 9 2013, 07:47 PM   #137
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

11/Smith didn't forget; he simply chooses not to 'actively' remember something that he can't do anything about.
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Old December 10 2013, 05:54 AM   #138
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

The problem with McGann returning in place of Hurt is that people could have guessed the plot because there's no way any writer would cast the 8th doctor as a bad guy. John Hurt on the other hand, adds that critical layer of deception since the War Doctor is created specifically to fight in the Time War.
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Old December 10 2013, 10:37 AM   #139
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

I don't know about that. The Seventh Doctor went from originally being a clown to somewhat of a master manipulator with even some slightly sinister tendencies. I actually thought long prior before "Day of the Doctor" (even before Moffatt took over), that the Time War may have sent the Eighth Doctor down a dark path--or at least down the path of a warrior--during the conflict. In a way, "Night of the Doctor" was kind of how I thought he'd end up.
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Old December 10 2013, 04:57 PM   #140
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

intrinsical wrote: View Post
The problem with McGann returning in place of Hurt is that people could have guessed the plot because there's no way any writer would cast the 8th doctor as a bad guy. John Hurt on the other hand, adds that critical layer of deception since the War Doctor is created specifically to fight in the Time War.
Although, on the other hand, I would have been very surprised if Day of the Doctor didn't end with the War Doctor's redemption.
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Old December 10 2013, 04:57 PM   #141
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

And seeing as we know so little about the 8th Doctor (not counting audios, which Moffatt could've discounted, had he wished), he could've very easily been written as a Doctor who went dark, especially while the Time War went on.

Having said that, I'm perfectly with DOTD as it was, other than wishing for Eccleston to have taken part.
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Old December 11 2013, 05:32 PM   #142
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

publiusr wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
If I could re-write time..
Is that an order or a cast for a multi-doctor special?
No, to make the Doctor get older despite his regens.

Umm but wasn't Davison younger than Eccleston? maybe even Tennant? And isn't Hurt older than Hartnell was?
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Old December 11 2013, 05:38 PM   #143
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

^Although Hurt's Doctor had the face of a young man when we saw his newly-regenerated face in Night of the Doctor.

Capaldi is as old as Hartnell was in 1963, though looks younger.
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Old December 12 2013, 02:26 AM   #144
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Sparky wrote: View Post


I'm still thinking the crack is going to be explained.
I am intrigued.
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Old December 12 2013, 02:44 AM   #145
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Eccleston not returning as the Ninth Doctor is the most obvious missing element
Especially considering the Moment is trying to show the War Doctor what he'll become if he goes ahead and obliterates Gallifrey. You'd think the first incarnation to deal with the guilt and torment over how the Time War ended would be a pivotal one for the Moment's presentation. Hell, imagine the scene where the War Doctor asks about how many children were on Gallifrey at the end were Eccleston in it. He still hasn't brought himself to finding out, Tennant knows the number, and Smith has forgotten it.

Yeah, I know, it's pointless to speculate on what could have been, especially considering there likely wasn't very much of a chance of Eccleston returning for this. But one can still imagine anyway.
The million dollar question is this: Had Eccleston said YES, would Moffat had written it with the War Doctor STILL, and had him meet all THREE of his future regenerations...

...or would Eccleston taken the place OF the War Doctor, meaning no John Hurt but rather him in that place with very minor script changes?

It could work either way. He'd fit into the whole :TRhe one that regrets" and "The one that forgets" part as "The one that hates himself" or some such. But he also could have worked in the Hurt role.

Guess we'll never know.
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Old December 12 2013, 02:46 AM   #146
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Bacl wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Eccleston not returning as the Ninth Doctor is the most obvious missing element
Especially considering the Moment is trying to show the War Doctor what he'll become if he goes ahead and obliterates Gallifrey. You'd think the first incarnation to deal with the guilt and torment over how the Time War ended would be a pivotal one for the Moment's presentation. Hell, imagine the scene where the War Doctor asks about how many children were on Gallifrey at the end were Eccleston in it. He still hasn't brought himself to finding out, Tennant knows the number, and Smith has forgotten it.

Yeah, I know, it's pointless to speculate on what could have been, especially considering there likely wasn't very much of a chance of Eccleston returning for this. But one can still imagine anyway.
The million dollar question is this: Had Eccleston said YES, would Moffat had written it with the War Doctor STILL, and had him meet all THREE of his future regenerations...

...or would Eccleston taken the place OF the War Doctor, meaning no John Hurt but rather him in that place with very minor script changes?

It could work either way. He'd fit into the whole :TRhe one that regrets" and "The one that forgets" part as "The one that hates himself" or some such. But he also could have worked in the Hurt role.

Guess we'll never know.
Eccleston would probably be "The one that encounters Daleks after they were all supposed killed and wonders 'What the hell was it all for?!'"
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Old December 12 2013, 03:28 AM   #147
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

I'm inclined to believe that Eccleston would've been the third Doctor the War Doctor would have met. The "one who regrets" line would have suited him the most, really, or it could've met "the ones who regret" and I like to think that the whole time fission effect would've been a creation of Bad Wolf, thus making the Ninth Doctor from somewhere at the end of the episode, oddly enough.

Nothing conclusive, but thats what I feel would've happened.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:20 AM   #148
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

I strongly suspect that much of the plot was written after the major casting was known (so Moffat could adapt to either Eccleston or Tennant), but I tend to agree that Eccleston likely would have replaced Tennant rather than Hurt's Doctor.

I think Moffat wanted his own Doctor for the role. If it had been McGann or Eccleston, fans of those characters would probably have been upset at the dramatic character revision necessary to make the character work. It had to be someone with a bit of an unpredictability who was "different" from the other Doctors. Plus, an established Doctor isn't a secret (one he will take to his grave).
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Old December 12 2013, 04:30 AM   #149
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Even though I did originally say it seemed as though the War Doctor was originally written for Eccleston, I got to admit with more thought switching the two would have had significant impact to the story. So yeah, I'm sure Moffat intended all along to feature a Doctor fighting the Time War meet his future selves.
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Old December 12 2013, 07:00 AM   #150
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
I strongly suspect that much of the plot was written after the major casting was known (so Moffat could adapt to either Eccleston or Tennant), but I tend to agree that Eccleston likely would have replaced Tennant rather than Hurt's Doctor.
Moffat admited early on that Tennant was always gonna be in it, being the most popular NuWho and all that. Getting Eccleston would've been a bonus - and there's the odd rumor that he'd had two scenarios planned out for the special, one WITH Nine in it, and one without. And we saw the latter one, obviously, if thats to be true.

I think Moffat wanted his own Doctor for the role. If it had been McGann or Eccleston, fans of those characters would probably have been upset at the dramatic character revision necessary to make the character work. It had to be someone with a bit of an unpredictability who was "different" from the other Doctors. Plus, an established Doctor isn't a secret (one he will take to his grave).
While I agree with you, I would still have liked it enormously if it were Eight instead of War Doctor in it. Not only because of prospect of Paul McGann in a meaty, full-center role, but because we know that Moffat would aknowledge the suffering that Doctor went through in the audios and would add them in his characterization accordingly.

Eccleston being in the War Doctor's place is also an idea I'd like, and he's my favorite Doctor, but I think it wouldn't make that much sense, unless he'd been recently regenerated before exterminating Time Lords and Daleks alike.

In the end, we still got a pretty good John Hurt as a Doctor, which if fine enough, really. But I wouldn't have been phased at all if it'd been either 8 or 9 in that role - in fact, it'd be more preferable, from a writing perspective.
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