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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 187 55.99%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 17.07%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 11.38%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 46 13.77%
I don't know. 6 1.80%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 9 2013, 09:07 PM   #871
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Wait? Endangering planets is too "dark" now? But planets blow up or get threatened in practically every Trek movie. Earth comes under attack in movies one, four, eight, and ten. Soran was going to destroy some poor inhabited planet in Generations. Ceti Alpha V turns into a hellhole in Khan. The Genesis Planet goes ka-blooey in Movie Three. Etc.

Threatening planets is a time-honored space opera tradition, going back to E.E. "Doc" Smith at least. Hell, Star Trek was inspired by Forbidden Planet, which ends with the planet blowing up . . . .

This is hardly new to the Abrams films.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:16 PM   #872
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Harvey wrote: View Post
The ear scene is certainly more memorable, but I always felt the hanging, tortured, bloody bodies onboard Regula One was the most gruesome image in the film.
Whatever the case, I don't think it's important to argue about it. One is a steady diet of destruction, the other has actually gone to a world that wasn't facing annihilation. There's nothing hopeful about people dying. There is something hopeful about creating a new life at the end of the Motion Picture. It was simply misguided, not vengeful and hate-filled. It didn't fully understand the universe and how destructive it was. These may sound like semantics, but they're embodying the tone difference between STID's hopeless story and everything else.

As for whoever said "Star Trek has always been violent, why shouldn't it continue?" I think it's important to remember that motivations make a huge difference. It's the difference between someone going to jail (I tried to murder him) and not (the gun just went off; no malicious intent). And I am talking about the antagonist of the movie. Star Trek, the original series movies, managed to vary it up a little. This probe is looking for whales, not try to destroy earth. This Captain is looking for the ultimate weapon. This Captain wants more power by killing Kirk.

What has ST '09 and STID done? Revenge. It's so much a part of STID that we show 3 or 4 characters lashing out when they are wronged. That's not very hopeful, and a reason why I wouldn't show the movies to someone. The adults I know would become sickened by it, and the children I know would emulate it.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:18 PM   #873
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
As for whether I skipped over something, people in glass houses shoudn't throw stones. I asked for someone to name a world that hasn't been destroyed or faced extinction, your response was "Well, we don't know if that was Praxis." So what? Does the planet look healthy?
I was actually conceding the point. Were you conceding as well?
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Old December 9 2013, 09:19 PM   #874
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I know this has been said a zillion times in this thread alone, but Marcus wasn't motivated by revenge. He ordered the murder of Khan (and sabotaged the Enterprise) to start a war with the Klingons. He then tried to destroy the Enterprise himself when this plan failed, to cover his tracks. His motivation there wasn't revenge -- it was self-preservation.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:26 PM   #875
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
The adults I know would become sickened by it, and the children I know would emulate it.
Where in the world are you living? The 1940's? The adults I know love it (ages 18 to 70), my 16-year old son enjoyed it and my 6-year old sniffled and cried at the death of Kirk and attempted to build a Lego Enterprise (no attempts at emulation, no skull crushings).

In the context of what Hollywood currently puts out or what I grew up with as a kid, Star Trek Into Darkness wasn't very violent. No more so than Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (actually less so in my opinion).

Harvey wrote: View Post
The ear scene is certainly more memorable, but I always felt the hanging, tortured, bloody bodies onboard Regula One was the most gruesome image in the film.
I always thought Terrell shrieking as he disintegrated was the most gruesome/haunting.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:31 PM   #876
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Harvey wrote: View Post
I know this has been said a zillion times in this thread alone, but Marcus wasn't motivated by revenge. He ordered the murder of Khan (and sabotaged the Enterprise) to start a war with the Klingons. He then tried to destroy the Enterprise himself when this plan failed, to cover his tracks. His motivation there wasn't revenge -- it was self-preservation.
Some people are convinced the movie is about revenge and no amount of proof to the contrary is going to change that.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:32 PM   #877
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
The adults I know would become sickened by it, and the children I know would emulate it.
Where in the world are you living? The 1940's? The adults I know love it (ages 18 to 70), my 16-year old son enjoyed it and my 6-year old sniffled and cried at the death of Kirk and attempted to build a Lego Enterprise (no attempts at emulation, no skull crushings).

In the context of what Hollywood currently puts out or what I grew up with as a kid, Star Trek Into Darkness wasn't very violent. No more so than Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (actually less so in my opinion).

Harvey wrote: View Post
The ear scene is certainly more memorable, but I always felt the hanging, tortured, bloody bodies onboard Regula One was the most gruesome image in the film.
I always thought Terrell shrieking as he disintegrated was the most gruesome/haunting.
Not the 1940s. The 2010s in Michigan. You never played Star Trek in the backyard? I certainly did. I also played Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and got more than a few scrapes because of it. We also played like Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn when we played basketball.

The adults I know would turn it off because they have become convinced there is more violence than sex on television and in the movies. It wouldn't be their 'cup of tea,' as it has been said to me. My then 61-year-old mother who has seen all the Star Trek series, said "I've had enough" and left the living room after I showed her '09, right after the destruction of Vulcan.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:35 PM   #878
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Harvey wrote: View Post
I know this has been said a zillion times in this thread alone, but Marcus wasn't motivated by revenge. He ordered the murder of Khan (and sabotaged the Enterprise) to start a war with the Klingons. He then tried to destroy the Enterprise himself when this plan failed, to cover his tracks. His motivation there wasn't revenge -- it was self-preservation.
Kirk, Spock, and Khan were. Khan was the antagonist, not Marcus.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:36 PM   #879
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Structurally, isn't Marcus is the real antagonist of the movie? Khan just lives longer.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:39 PM   #880
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
I know this has been said a zillion times in this thread alone, but Marcus wasn't motivated by revenge. He ordered the murder of Khan (and sabotaged the Enterprise) to start a war with the Klingons. He then tried to destroy the Enterprise himself when this plan failed, to cover his tracks. His motivation there wasn't revenge -- it was self-preservation.
Kirk, Spock, and Khan were. Khan was the antagonist, not Marcus.
Khan, the guy being forced to build weapons for Marcus? And they were all about revenge all the time? I thought the theme was how far you would go to protect your loved ones...
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Old December 9 2013, 09:41 PM   #881
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

Not the 1940s. The 2010s in Michigan. You never played Star Trek in the backyard?
I did. My boys don't. They have other interests.

My then 61-year-old mother who has seen all the Star Trek series, said "I've had enough" and left the living room after I showed her '09, right after the destruction of Vulcan.
My mother-in-law is seventy and she loved the movie, watched TOS during its original run.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:45 PM   #882
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
I know this has been said a zillion times in this thread alone, but Marcus wasn't motivated by revenge. He ordered the murder of Khan (and sabotaged the Enterprise) to start a war with the Klingons. He then tried to destroy the Enterprise himself when this plan failed, to cover his tracks. His motivation there wasn't revenge -- it was self-preservation.
Kirk, Spock, and Khan were. Khan was the antagonist, not Marcus.
Khan, the guy being forced to build weapons for Marcus? And they were all about revenge all the time? I thought the theme was how far you would go to protect your loved ones...
Kirk isn't protecting his crew when he goes after that SOB. "I watched you murder innocent men and women! I was ordered to end you! You think he was doing it because he wanted to avoid war with the attacker? No. "In the name of Captain Pike..." I shall beat you until my arm falls off.

You think Spock was trying to apprehend Khan? Nope. He was out there to kill him for killing Kirk. That's why Uhura has to stop him "He's our only chance to save Kirk!"

Revenge is on Khan's mind when he kills Marcus.

The end of the movie, Kirk ties it up nicely by saying "we shouldn't try to seek revenge, to act on our initial anger." EDIT:So anger would appear to be the connective tissue between Marcus and Khan and Kirk and Spock. Marcus is motivated by preservation due to his anger that Nero destroyed Vulcan. Khan is angry for being used, Kirk and Spock for someone dying. Acting on the initial anger (re: revenge)
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Old December 9 2013, 09:51 PM   #883
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

The end of the movie, Kirk ties it up nicely by saying "we shouldn't try to seek revenge, to act on our initial anger." EDIT:So anger would appear to be the connective tissue between Marcus and Khan and Kirk and Spock. Marcus is motivated by preservation due to his anger that Nero destroyed Vulcan. Khan is angry for being used, Kirk and Spock for someone dying. Acting on the initial anger (re: revenge)
Three humans and a half-human acting realistically human. That hasn't happened very often since 1987. No wonder it is throwing you for a loop.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:52 PM   #884
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

The end of the movie, Kirk ties it up nicely by saying "we shouldn't try to seek revenge, to act on our initial anger." EDIT:So anger would appear to be the connective tissue between Marcus and Khan and Kirk and Spock. Marcus is motivated by preservation due to his anger that Nero destroyed Vulcan. Khan is angry for being used, Kirk and Spock for someone dying. Acting on the initial anger (re: revenge)
Three humans and a half-human acting realistically human. That hasn't happened very often since 1987. No wonder it is throwing you for a loop.
Then I guess I'm not human. I would have a problem with anyone acting the way that they did.
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Old December 9 2013, 09:55 PM   #885
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

The end of the movie, Kirk ties it up nicely by saying "we shouldn't try to seek revenge, to act on our initial anger." EDIT:So anger would appear to be the connective tissue between Marcus and Khan and Kirk and Spock. Marcus is motivated by preservation due to his anger that Nero destroyed Vulcan. Khan is angry for being used, Kirk and Spock for someone dying. Acting on the initial anger (re: revenge)
Three humans and a half-human acting realistically human. That hasn't happened very often since 1987. No wonder it is throwing you for a loop.
Then I guess I'm not human. I would have a problem with anyone acting the way that they did.
If you have someone hurt a member of your family, you may find out you feel very differently.
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