RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,858
Posts: 5,474,518
Members: 25,044
Currently online: 542
Newest member: DrawHQ

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Shatner Book Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Nov 20

Trek Original Series Slippers
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Hemsworth Is Sexiest Man Alive
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Trek Business Card Cases
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

February IDW Publishing Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

Retro Review: The Siege of AR-558
By: Michelle on Nov 15

Trevco Full Bleed Uniform T-Shirts
By: T'Bonz on Nov 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 211 56.87%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 61 16.44%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 39 10.51%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 53 14.29%
I don't know. 7 1.89%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 9 2013, 07:29 PM   #856
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Blip wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Nothing in any of those clips is as gratuitous, unnecessary and disgusting as the end of "Conspiracy" where Picard and Riker destroy Remmick's head.

Gratuitous? Disgusting?? Those are hardly the terms I'd use. Hell, these days I'd hesitate to even use the word "graphic" to describe that scene.
By Trek's standards, it is. I'm fine with it, but I'm not sure I would have been age 6.
I grew up on horror movies. That scene didn't bother me!
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:38 PM   #857
Ilaliya
Ensign
 
Location: Montreal
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ilaliya wrote: View Post

The whole concept of timelines have weakened the Star Trek property. In my very humble opinion.
Time travel has given us many of the best stories across all the Trek series. I'd say keep it.
You don't think they've tapped that well dry?

When they were doing time travel in TNG, it was novel and very cool. Voyager got a little out of hand, but I think they were clever about it. But by ENT, it seemed like the go-to gimmick when the writers were being lazy.

Again, just my opinion. But I just felt like... I wanted to be immersed in the "era" of that particular Star Trek show. One of the cool things about Star Trek (to me), is that it's "hard" enough sci-fi that you get episodes where it's really about exploring the boundaries of technology, and the interaction between technology and people... and how that creates problems but it's used to solve problems.

Too much time travel, and it's like... it's ALWAYS the 29th century. There is no concept of "watching historical events in the Star Trek universe." And getting to see limitations of the technology of that era. Because it's always *now* in the time war.

If that makes any sense.
Ilaliya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:42 PM   #858
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Ilaliya wrote: View Post

You don't think they've tapped that well dry?
They've tapped many wells dry over the past seven hundred episodes and twelve movies. It doesn't mean that there isn't room for more well crafted stories. I'd point most recently to the novel The Rings of Time by fellow TrekBBS member Greg Cox.


When they were doing it on TNG, it was novel. Voyager got a little out of hand, but they were at least clever about it. But by ENT, it felt like the go-to gimmick when the writers were being lazy.

Again, just my opinion. But I just felt like... I wanted to be immersed in the "era" of that particular Star Trek show. One of the cool things about Star Trek (to me), is that it's "hard" enough sci-fi that you get episodes where it's really about exploring the boundaries of technology, and the interaction between technology and people... and how that creates problems but it's used to solve problems.

Too much time travel, and it's like... it's ALWAYS the 29th century. There is no concept of "watching historical events in the Star Trek universe." And getting to see limitations of the technology of that era. Because it's always *now* in the time war.

If that makes any sense.
The beauty of the Trek format is that there's room for all different types of stories. Too go forward and say that we're going to eliminate one type of story just doesn't set well with me.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:45 PM   #859
JariM
Lieutenant
 
JariM's Avatar
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Blip wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Nothing in any of those clips is as gratuitous, unnecessary and disgusting as the end of "Conspiracy" where Picard and Riker destroy Remmick's head.

Gratuitous? Disgusting?? Those are hardly the terms I'd use. Hell, these days I'd hesitate to even use the word "graphic" to describe that scene.
Yes. Today it doesn't look like much but back in the day we didn't really see that stuff on television shows.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ilaliya wrote: View Post

The whole concept of timelines have weakened the Star Trek property. In my very humble opinion.
Time travel has given us many of the best stories across all the Trek series. I'd say keep it.
That's just the thing. It should not become a crutch for the writers.
__________________
"I was a perfect gentleman"
-Trip (and Archer too)
JariM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:48 PM   #860
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JariM wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Ilaliya wrote: View Post

The whole concept of timelines have weakened the Star Trek property. In my very humble opinion.
Time travel has given us many of the best stories across all the Trek series. I'd say keep it.
That's just the thing. It should not become a crutch for the writers.
But the thing is, is it really a crutch? When you look across the totality of the franchise, we have maybe four dozen actual time travel episodes out of seven-hundred plus episodes of material.

Across the Original Series, there are five time travel episodes (six if we count TAS).
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:55 PM   #861
Ilaliya
Ensign
 
Location: Montreal
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
JariM wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Time travel has given us many of the best stories across all the Trek series. I'd say keep it.
That's just the thing. It should not become a crutch for the writers.
But the thing is, is it really a crutch? When you look across the totality of the franchise, we have maybe four dozen actual time travel episodes out of seven-hundred plus episodes of material.

Across the Original Series, there are five time travel episodes (six if we count TAS).
I was honestly fine with time travel until ENT. I felt like the "temporal war" actually weakened the Star Trek universe. Because it means in every age, there's 29th century technology running around. It takes the mystery out of exploration for me -- you're not forging a path for future generations. Those future generations are there alongside you, making sure you are on the "proper" historical path.

Just bugs me.

Again, don't want to diminish any enjoyment you get out of time travel episodes. I just wish they would be more self-contained, and serve a specific purpose within the narrative structure of that episode. And not be the purpose. If that makes any sense.
Ilaliya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:56 PM   #862
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ilaliya wrote: View Post

You don't think they've tapped that well dry?
They've tapped many wells dry over the past seven hundred episodes and twelve movies. It doesn't mean that there isn't room for more well crafted stories. I'd point most recently to the novel The Rings of Time by fellow TrekBBS member Greg Cox.
Thanks! And dare I mention that I have another time-travel Trek adventure coming out in February?

(Just turned in the final, final revisions last night!)
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:00 PM   #863
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Ilaliya wrote: View Post
I was honestly fine with time travel until ENT. I felt like the "temporal war" actually weakened the Star Trek universe. Because it means in every age, there's 29th century technology running around. It takes the mystery out of exploration for me -- you're not forging a path for future generations. Those future generations are there alongside you, making sure you are on the "proper" historical path.
They did a pretty crappy job of it in ST'09 (unless you count Old Spock making sure Kirk and Spock end up BFF's)
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:03 PM   #864
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Ilaliya wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
JariM wrote: View Post


That's just the thing. It should not become a crutch for the writers.
But the thing is, is it really a crutch? When you look across the totality of the franchise, we have maybe four dozen actual time travel episodes out of seven-hundred plus episodes of material.

Across the Original Series, there are five time travel episodes (six if we count TAS).
I was honestly fine with time travel until ENT. I felt like the "temporal war" actually weakened the Star Trek universe. Because it means in every age, there's 29th century technology running around. It takes the mystery out of exploration for me -- you're not forging a path for future generations. Those future generations are there alongside you, making sure you are on the "proper" historical path.

Just bugs me.

Again, don't want to diminish any enjoyment you get out of time travel episodes. I just wish they would be more self-contained, and serve a specific purpose within the narrative structure of that episode. And not be the purpose. If that makes any sense.
I'm not saying that all time-travel tales have been stunning successes. But, by and large, the time travel episodes usually turn out to be fairly solid and I don't see a reason there should be a prohibition on them in whatever form Trek takes next.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:06 PM   #865
Ilaliya
Ensign
 
Location: Montreal
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Ilaliya wrote: View Post

You don't think they've tapped that well dry?
They've tapped many wells dry over the past seven hundred episodes and twelve movies. It doesn't mean that there isn't room for more well crafted stories. I'd point most recently to the novel The Rings of Time by fellow TrekBBS member Greg Cox.
Thanks! And dare I mention that I have another time-travel Trek adventure coming out in February?

(Just turned in the final, final revisions last night!)
That's cool!

If you don't mind me asking... do you have any general writing tricks that you could talk about to prevent time travel from becoming a maguffin? (I mean... Star Trek series writers have gotten that wrong)

I ask for my own purposes.
Ilaliya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:09 PM   #866
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Yeah, the time-travel eps and movies actually have a pretty good track record: "City on the Edge of Forever," "Tomorrow is Yesterday," "All Our Yesterdays," "Trials and Tribble-ations," "Little Green Men," "Yesterday's Enterprise," "Assignment:Earth," "Future's End," "Timeless," "Relativity," and, of course, The Voyage Home and First Contact.

Ilaliya: To be honest, it depends on the story. Christopher Bennett has probably put much more thought into figuring out the physics and mechanics of time-travel than I have. I'm usually more interested in throwing the characters into interesting situations and eras than dealing with the actual time-travel mcguffin itself.

I lean a bit towards what I think of as the "Twilight Zone" approach to time-travel which is less about the technobabble and temporal mechanics and more about disorienting characters by putting them in the wrong era!
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com

Last edited by Greg Cox; December 9 2013 at 08:42 PM.
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:13 PM   #867
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post

(4) The PG-13 rating didn't exist until July of 1984, so the first three TOS films couldn't have been given it (and obviously weren't going to be rated R).
Good point! I suspect Khan at least would have been rated PG-13 had that rating existed back then . . . .
TWoK still has a 15 rating in the UK. Or at least it did for quite a long while.

(UK series would be: U, PG, 12, 15, 18, X), most of the others are PG/12.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:44 PM   #868
borgboy
Fleet Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I love time travel stories usually. They're a chance to contemplate the results of out choices, explore different time periods, and generally break the rules of living in linear time.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:55 PM   #869
HaventGotALife
Fleet Captain
 
HaventGotALife's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

I find all these scenes more disturbing than a slug coming out of the ear of Chekov.
Way to miss everything else I posted on the matter.
My response took the most gruesome of anything you mentioned, and compared it to NuTrek.

As for whether I skipped over something, people in glass houses shoudn't throw stones. I asked for someone to name a world that hasn't been destroyed or faced extinction, your response was "Well, we don't know if that was Praxis." So what? Does the planet look healthy?

Just so there's no confusion over what I am talking about:

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

Name me a world in Star Trek re-boot that hasn't been destroyed or faced extinction (Nibru's world, Romulus and Remus in prime universe, Vulcan, Kronos because Praxis has already exploded, Earth because of the drill in '09, the destruction of terrorist attacks in STID, etc.). It's incredibly dark. It isn't some of the time and Kirk and Crew stopping it. It mostly affects the Federation. It's not a very bright future, despite what JJ Abrams has said. It will militarize Starfleet.
We simply don't know if that was Praxis or not in Star Trek Into Darkness.

I find the Abramsverse no darker than TOS.
HaventGotALife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:59 PM   #870
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

The ear scene is certainly more memorable, but I always felt the hanging, tortured, bloody bodies onboard Regula One was the most gruesome image in the film.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
prime timeline, prime trek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.