RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,874
Posts: 5,329,011
Members: 24,556
Currently online: 595
Newest member: EvyR55

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 9 2013, 07:34 AM   #166
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science
They might carry around knives and bat-thingies, but the Empire was created as a result of science and technology.

The Klingons wanted Genesis for use as a weapon of mass destruction, they didn't seem to give a crap about other uses for it.
That not true, three Klingons were discussing possible uses of the Genesis Device, one saw the weapons potential of the device (as did David Marcus), another Klingon saw the planet creating abilities, the third Klingon didn't venture an opinion.





Last edited by T'Girl; December 9 2013 at 07:47 AM.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 11:11 AM   #167
starburst
Fleet Captain
 
starburst's Avatar
 
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Well the duckblind could be limiting: After all, how much or how big of a base could you hide right under the natives nose without something happening? Who Watches The Watchers for example.

So perhaps on a typical mission the holoship serves as larger lab and living space and gives them more flexibility. Hiding it in the water makes some form of sense: Keeps it off the trails, reduces the chance a stray hunter or someone out gathering food might stumble on it. The stupid move is hiding it in the village water supply.

As for cloaking tech: Yeah, that is one that didn't get explained. Especially when you toss in those nitfy cloaking suits the team has. You could argue that it wasn't a military type of cloak and was a variant of the duck blind holographic camo.
I see where you are coming from, but if hiding a cloaked holoship for research purposes was a standard procedure for a Duck Blind mission neither Data or Picard should have been surprised when they found it. If that was the case it would have been logged as attached to the mission along with the Scoutship and any other kit they had with them.

The suits further compound the problem, if they are so useful for observing races like this up close then why were they never used during the Dominion War for scouting missions!

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
If that was what he had done, no it isn't. He should have gathered up Data, ran out of the patch, made his report, and then flown back to stall things.

What he did do was force Ruafo's hand, piss him off, and speed and escalate the matter and then decided to "slow things down".

If I was doing things in a "better" order:

* Picard "saves" Data. Leaves the patch.
* Makes his report, gets some BS about it being under review or the Federation is aware of the matter and will update him.
* Picard takes the yacht back to the planet, sneaks past he S'ona.
* Riker stays on station to wait for an answer.
* Incredible journey to nowhere.
* Riker gets orders to have the S'ona and Dougherty halt the operation till the Council can review the new information.
* Dougherty obeys orders, gets killed, Big space battle as Riker tries to stop the S'ona.
* Pretty as is from there.

Actually...cut the S'ona out all together.

Have the Enterprise crew being the ones doing the observation. Starfleet gets the news of the miracle rings, decision made to harvest the planet. Warp in Dougherty with his flagship and a couple of more smaller ships); same ground "battle" but Federation on Federation, Space battle Federation on Federation.
I would have enjoyed seeing that film, make the Enterprise insurrection far less black and white.

Dougherty obviously thought he was doing the right thing for the Federation so it could have been played as a good man doing the wrong thing for reasons you can at least sympathise with without the S'ona clouding the water with their revenge.

Just like Into Darkness which could have been about (and was said to be about) a story of an Officer doing some very bad things but with reasons you could relate to... both ended up being tales of revenge by a madman (although I think ITD is more compelling a revenge tale).

The Overlord wrote: View Post
The problem is if the planet doesn't belong to the Federation, then Son'a could just invoked the Prime Directive and keep the Federation out of this conflict and the Ba'ku would have been screwed.
Which as Picard stated in his initial report they had Warp technology so the Prime Directive didn't apply to them which Dougherty also used to explain away why they could be moved, they moved their they didnt evolve on the planet.

In Dougherty's mind he was restoring the natural evolution of 600 people to save countless others.
starburst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 02:33 PM   #168
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science, That empire?
They wouldn't have needed the science as the S'ona seemed to have that end of the equation worked out. Plus, I never bought the notion that the Empire completely rejects medical advances that help make them stronger. The Klingons were fooling around with genetic engineering in the 22nd century. They obviously have doctors as Gorkon's personal physician was killed when Kronos One was attacked.
__________________
"When I first heard about it (the Enterprise underwater), my inner Trekkie was in a rage. When I saw it, my inner kid beat up my inner Trekkie and made him go sit in the corner." - Bill Jasper
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 04:05 PM   #169
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

The Empire that seems to frown on modern (24th century) medical technology and doesn't seem to care much for science, That empire?
Thinking about it, this is another reason I hate the bad-hair, biker Klingons Modern Trek and Ron Moore foisted upon us. They are a direct contradiction of the TOS Klingons. The one's who were able to develop planets ("The Trouble with Tribbles"), develop devices that can strip the mind of its information ("Errand of Mercy"), obviously are able to build colonies on non-Class M worlds ("Friday's Child"), able to develop new weapons and create a Tribble predator ("More Tribbles, More Troubles"). Plus were able to build and maintain a fleet that was on par with the Federation.

Modern Trek did Gene Coon's creation a huge disservice with how they depicted them.
__________________
"When I first heard about it (the Enterprise underwater), my inner Trekkie was in a rage. When I saw it, my inner kid beat up my inner Trekkie and made him go sit in the corner." - Bill Jasper
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 06:00 PM   #170
Shaka Zulu
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Bulawayo Military Krral
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
And oh, by the way ... some of the hate displayed, here, for INSURRECTION has taken me by surprise!
Not hate. I just don't think it was a very good movie. I rank it 12th out of the twelve Star Trek movies.

The moral dilemma is forced, the Ba'ku immensely unlikable and Picard's actions are driven mainly by wanting a piece of ass. The crew was never in any real danger and the lack of internal dissent over Picard's actions robbed the film of any real drama.

I liked the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine, the face stretching was cool and the cinematography during the planet scenes was awesome.

Insurrection was a lesson in how not to make a movie. With a release date chosen and locked-in before they had even hired a writer and the stars (Stewart & Spiner) having too much say.
And yet, all of fandom (so we're led to believe) hates Star Trek Into Darkness and Star Trek because 'they have no plot' yet this movie gets a pass from them! This movie has no plot, and nobody to sympathize with in the form of the Ba'ku (who are way too white for most people), yet it's better simply because the characters are the way the are and not too changed like Kirk was in the new movies. Amazing

CoveSanta wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
The federation where during a massive shooting war Sisko can devote time to a baseball game, helping a hologram get his club back, and the dominion was getting its ass handed to it until the Breen showed up a few episodes before the end.

Yes, thing were very dire for the federation at the time
Do you think that during, say, World War II, that members of the military did nothing but fight the war 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? People always have need of relaxation, entertainment, stress relief, and so forth. It's why, even in the midst of horrible wars, we have the USO which brings entertainers to the soldiers in the field.

Sisko and company stopping for some time on the holodeck is perfectly realistic, even during a massive war such as they were fighting.
SOME wars are like that-not all wars are (see Battlestar Galactica for what I mean). And some soldiers don't get to rest up at all in the ways mentioned by you.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; December 9 2013 at 06:13 PM.
Shaka Zulu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 06:18 PM   #171
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

^I just recently listened to the new commentary that Frakes and Marina Sirtis did for the Blu-Ray and even he pointed out the fact that the Baku are all white. It's weird.

Incidentally, can we get those two to do commentaries for all the films? Even the ones they weren't in? They were great fun to listen to.
__________________
Two penguins were walking across an iceberg.
One penguin turned to the second penguin and said
"You look like you're wearing a tuxedo."
And the second penguin said "Maybe I am..."
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 06:21 PM   #172
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post

SOME wars are like that-not all wars are (see Battlestar Galactica for what I mean). And some soldiers don't get to rest up at all in the ways mentioned by you.
Battlestar Galactica wasn't a war but an attempted genocide with the Cylons sending wave after wave of killbots (extra points if you get the reference) after the humans. I don't think it's fair to compare the two wars because the two enemies had entirely different goals.
__________________
"When I first heard about it (the Enterprise underwater), my inner Trekkie was in a rage. When I saw it, my inner kid beat up my inner Trekkie and made him go sit in the corner." - Bill Jasper
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 06:21 PM   #173
Reanok
Commodore
 
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

What irks me about the movie Data being killed off.And the silly b4 storyplot.It was a lousy movie.
Reanok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 06:22 PM   #174
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Reanok wrote: View Post
What irks me about the movie Data being killed off.And the silly b4 storyplot.It was a lousy movie.
Wrong movie.
__________________
"When I first heard about it (the Enterprise underwater), my inner Trekkie was in a rage. When I saw it, my inner kid beat up my inner Trekkie and made him go sit in the corner." - Bill Jasper
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 06:49 PM   #175
Shaka Zulu
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Bulawayo Military Krral
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

AgentDreidel wrote: View Post
If you win the lottery, you're not obligated to share that money or give any of it to charity. If you have healthy kidneys, you're not obligated to volunteer to be an organ donor.

But it doesn't make you any less of a jerk for not doing so.
About that...I used to think that Ted Turner was a jerk for not leaving his fortune to his kids after he died, but after seeing how trust fund brats like Paris Hilton carry on with their parent's money, I now understand why he did it.
Shaka Zulu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 07:31 PM   #176
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
0... but after seeing how trust fund brats like Paris Hilton carry on with their parent's money, I now understand why he did it.
While a common believe that I myself embraced for years, after reading a write up on her by Fortune Magazine I no longer believe in. Yes she does play a dizzy blonde in public, however behind the scenes Paris Hilton is a sharp business woman who has taken her trust fund and increased it enormously.

She learn well from her family while growing up.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9 2013, 08:26 PM   #177
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

^Not only that, but the only trust fund kids we ever hear about are the bad ones. The good ones fly under the radar.

Not that I'm speaking from experience. My big legacy will be my parents' furniture.
__________________
Two penguins were walking across an iceberg.
One penguin turned to the second penguin and said
"You look like you're wearing a tuxedo."
And the second penguin said "Maybe I am..."
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11 2013, 05:54 PM   #178
Armored Saint
Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

The first time I saw the movie, I was probably thirteen, so I didn't was really concerned about ethical issues. I was instead wondering why radiation didn't start to rejuvenate the Son'a. Geordi's blindness from birth was fastly cured and Worf got back to puberty, but at the end of the movie, Son'a are still old bleached scrotum.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11 2013, 07:59 PM   #179
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

May just be an indication of how far gone they were to begin with.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11 2013, 08:07 PM   #180
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
The first time I saw the movie, I was probably thirteen, so I didn't was really concerned about ethical issues. I was instead wondering why radiation didn't start to rejuvenate the Son'a. Geordi's blindness from birth was fastly cured and Worf got back to puberty, but at the end of the movie, Son'a are still old bleached scrotum.
DonIago wrote: View Post
May just be an indication of how far gone they were to begin with.
You have to wonder what Dougherty was like prior to exposure to the rings?
__________________
"When I first heard about it (the Enterprise underwater), my inner Trekkie was in a rage. When I saw it, my inner kid beat up my inner Trekkie and made him go sit in the corner." - Bill Jasper
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.