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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Revelation and Dust.
Outstanding 29 25.66%
Above Average 45 39.82%
Average 26 23.01%
Below Average 7 6.19%
Poor 6 5.31%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 2 2013, 09:01 AM   #376
Mage
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I feel that DRGIII was given a very tough job with writing this novel. He was the one charged with kicking of a storyline set over 5 novels, plus setting up two more (the Kira situation, and the thing with Sisko's daughter). But since there will always be people who read this before reading any other Trek, or having not read the other novels in a while, he also need to backtrack and re-tell part of the story. That's simply a necessary evil. Unfortunatly, he got some back critique for that because they insist that every novel in the Fall should be seen as a seperate entity, even though the other novels published sofar have shown us that is clearly not the case.
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Old December 2 2013, 01:32 PM   #377
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Eh, he's getting the criticism because the book just isn't very good. The other two books in the series have managed to tell their own story while contributing to the narrative; his just wandered, setting lots of stuff out there without doing much with them. And oddly (to this point), all the stuff he set up or left dangling, the other books in the series didn't pick back up, so it feels even stranger and more disconnected.

Lots of time wasted with flashbacks.
Kira stuff was lengthy, but no apparent payoff so far
Surprise ending wasn't even mentioned in the other books

Mostly, just no feeling that it was building to anything. Not a story in it's own right, just the first couple acts of a story. No payoff, no climax/conclusion, it just sorta WAS. If you can't resolve the big story (obviously not in an opening book), gotta introduce smaller things you can deal with. Didn't happen.

Aside from the Kira stuff being weird, it wasn't BAD, it just wasn't good. Without a conclusion, really wasn't much of anything...

As-is, it could have been the first 3 chapters of Crimson Shadow and we wouldn't have missed anything. President gets killed in opening of book 2, did you lose anything? That's really the knock; it wasn't necessary. Nothing would have been missed if book 2 spent a couple minutes telling you what you needed to know, or if all 4 books had been a couple pages longer...
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Old December 2 2013, 01:35 PM   #378
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Surely the setting up of new DS9 novels could have been done in new DS9 novels? If those threads set up in RaD are not resolved in Peaceable Kingdoms then the whole novel is basically a small short story about an assassination. I feel annoyed thet these plotlines were to be resolved over The Fall in general, let alone setting up future unconfirmed series. The other Fall books were fantastic, and self contained.

Keev/Kira?
Taran'atar?
Altek Dans?
Odo?

Any relevance to The Fall? We'll see in the last book.
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Old December 2 2013, 05:20 PM   #379
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I like to think that Revelations and Dust is kinda like two books in one. One part introduces the new DS9 and gives us some jumping off points for future DS9 tales, while the other part gives us the beginning of The Fall. Both worked together, but i can see it from the POV of others who felt this book didn't resolve enough. TPC does partically the same thing by changing Titan's status quo...but it wasn't as jarring as R&D. At least in my opinion...
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Old December 2 2013, 05:33 PM   #380
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

If it was just a jumping off point, that's fine, but it was sold as stand alone stories in an arc. And the other books have delivered on that while still contributing to the narrative. This one just didn't.

We got a lengthy depiction of the new station (fine), and the Bacco sub-plot. First one is just a description/intro, and the other one was just a few pages towards the end, and didn't resolve anything (not expected). This could have been worked into another book without losing anything.

The Kira part has yet to go anywhere, and didn't make a ton of sense on its own. If this part is INTENDED to go somewhere, it would have made just as much sense to have that be the first part of that NEXT book, and not just toss the intro scraps into this one. Nothing from this portion has had anything to do with the rest of the series to date, so why not hold it and do all that in one cohesive story later?

I think DRGIII just got the shaft here, and was given a bunch of scraps that needed to be worked in for later, without enough meat to hang a story on. I haven't had problems with his books, just not sure this was all his, or just something the editors wanted out there. Underwhelming mini-stories without resolution or payoff isn't something that's gonna be very popular, especially when the follow-up books don't continue the thread. Maybe it gets wrapped up at the end, but even then, that book will seem stronger but won't help save the first one...
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Old December 4 2013, 12:02 PM   #381
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I keep thinking about the book. The description of DS9-II is great (although I wouldn't have put the new ops in such an exposed location) and I actually liked the Kira/Bajor's past aspect better than the assassination plot.

I wonder whether the dangling threads will be resolved in the final book, which revisits DS9, or in a potential DS9 series. The only part I truly disliked was the lengthy Emissary sequence in the beginning. I appreciate the reference to the anniversary but it felt too long.

The reason I liked the Bajor-centred story is because it expands upon the history of an alien culture and continues the Bajora-thread of previous DS9 books while exploring a different era at the same time.
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Old December 5 2013, 02:39 AM   #382
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Although I liked the book quite a bit, I tend to agree with those who are saying it doesn't seem to fit well with the later books in "The Fall." I wasn't aware that Peaceable Kingdoms will also be set on DS9, so perhaps it will pick up some of the threads from R & D. The reopening of the wormhole and the appearance of Altan Dans would seem mostly likely to be followed up immediately.

I'm hoping that R & D is going to be a restart of regular DS9 novels by multiple authors similar to the original DS9 relaunch.
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Old December 8 2013, 05:58 PM   #383
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I was watching the DS9 episode "Things Past" the other day; in that episode Sisko is a Bajoran named Ishan Chaye in Odo's mind; any relation to President Pro Tempore Ishan Anjar?
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Old December 8 2013, 06:56 PM   #384
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

DS9forever wrote: View Post
I was watching the DS9 episode "Things Past" the other day; in that episode Sisko is a Bajoran named Ishan Chaye in Odo's mind; any relation to President Pro Tempore Ishan Anjar?
Not clear but an interesting idea.

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Old December 8 2013, 08:44 PM   #385
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

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Old December 8 2013, 10:06 PM   #386
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Ishan Chaye was a victim of the Occupation. Documented as such. If the President pro tempore is indeed a relative as suspected, it explains some of his behaviour.
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Old December 9 2013, 12:09 AM   #387
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

DEWLine wrote: View Post
Ishan Chaye was a victim of the Occupation. Documented as such. If the President pro tempore is indeed a relative as suspected, it explains some of his behaviour.
I don't know. I can definitely see him being bitter towards Cardassia, both for the Occupation and for Dukat ordering his brother's execution. But why try to disrupt Federation politics by participating in the murder of a legitimately elected leader like Nan Bacco? I don't see the point unless Ishan's mind is so warped he thinks anyone who short-changes Bajor (perhaps by allying with the Cardassians) is an enemy.

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Old December 15 2013, 11:25 AM   #388
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm afraid I wasn't impressed. Half the book was a non-Trek story whose inclusion was justified only by wormhole magic. The assassination stuff was underwhelming too - it was immediately obvious that Enkar didn't do it or at the very least was manipulated into it, but the crew seemed almost apathetic about finding out who was really responsible. And considering the technology available to them, why wasn't there a forcefield between the podium and the people? Didn't they learn anything from STVI? I was also surprised that the event was locked down and news prevented from leaving the station for awhile. I'd assumed the speeches at such an unprecedented gathering of heads of state would have been broadcast live throughout the quadrant.

I like the new DS9 station. But instead of the Hub, I think they should run it from the park, sitting in the grass using iPads
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Old December 15 2013, 05:13 PM   #389
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

But why try to disrupt Federation politics by participating in the murder of a legitimately elected leader like Nan Bacco? I don't see the point unless Ishan's mind is so warped he thinks anyone who short-changes Bajor (perhaps by allying with the Cardassians) is an enemy.
Do we know for sure that Ishan had knowledge of the assassination attempt?
I'm really looking forward to finding out how this all turns out!

I like the new DS9 station. But instead of the Hub, I think they should run it from the park, sitting in the grass using iPads
That'd be awesome!
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Old December 16 2013, 07:19 PM   #390
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Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I had two long bus rides this weekend and finished Revelation and Dust and The Crimson Shadow, in about two sittings apiece.

I appear to be in the relative minority here who was very pleased with Revelation and Dust. It felt to me, as it has to others, as the “re-relaunch” of DS9 and also as the buildup to the key event in The Fall. I appreciated George taking time to bring us up to speed not only with the history, but with the psychology of the major and minor players in the DS9 world, giving almost everyone some much-needed attention, while splicing in granules of other information to paint a picture of the wider universe as it stands in the relative calm before the storm.

The book felt more like a series of vignettes into the lives of the characters, with the slow build of the dedication ceremony providing the undercurrent, while Kira’s arc inside the wormhole provided the forward momentum from chapter to chapter, up until the dedication ceremony.

I am reminded of the similar event at the end of the first season of Babylon 5, and the season’s closing shot of Sinclair and Sakai discussing how “everything is different now.” For DS9, we’ve only caught glimpses of these characters over the last 7 or 8 years so some time needed to be spent on how things were before, in order to underscore how things would be different after. In that sense, George was imminently successful in my view.

As to one other common criticism seen in my quick perusal of the thread thus far was the recapitulation, almost shot-for-shot, of Sisko’s wormhole experience in “Emmisary” I initially took it at relative face value, underscoring the connection between Kira, Sisko, and the prophets (as people), exploring that a little bit deeper, and in connection with elements of Sisko’s vignette, also exploring the connections and roles of the Emissary, the Hand, and the Avatar. It wasn’t until I finished The Crimson Shadow and its references to reading the same thing with a new perspective that the what may have been the point of revisiting “Emissary” actually was. I’ll reserve final thoughts on that until I’ve read more of The Fall.
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