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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 8 2013, 05:34 AM   #106
JWPlatt
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Dukhat wrote: View Post
^Maybe, but you don't call someone a dickhead in public and then expect to ever work for them again. Unless the caller and the callee both know it's just a joke with no undertones of seriousness, which is exactly what this was. You're the one who implied that Cumberbatch was somehow actually thinking this, which is of course completely wrong.
By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.

If Benedict Cumberbatch wasn’t such a good sport about Abrams’ comments, you could almost read his above quote as being visibly pissed at the 47-year-old director.
Shall we begin parsing the article that parsed Cumberbatch?
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Old December 8 2013, 08:45 AM   #107
Dukhat
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about this quote from you...

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that.
...which seems to imply that you think Cumberbatch was actually somehow deep down thinking Abrams is a dick, most likely because you feel that he is as well and you're taking BC's quote out of context to suit your own beliefs.

You're welcome to think Abrams is a dick all you want to. But there's no "truth" about BC thinking the same thing, even by using humor to disguise it.
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Last edited by Dukhat; December 8 2013 at 08:57 AM.
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Old December 8 2013, 04:17 PM   #108
JWPlatt
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Dukhat wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about this quote from you...

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that.
...which seems to imply that you think Cumberbatch was actually somehow deep down thinking Abrams is a dick, most likely because you feel that he is as well and you're taking BC's quote out of context to suit your own beliefs.

You're welcome to think Abrams is a dick all you want to. But there's no "truth" about BC thinking the same thing, even by using humor to disguise it.
It doesn't matter what I think. The article made the implication that you persist in confusing. I suspect the truth is that the statement resonates with enough people to be funny whether Cumberbatch thinks Abrams is a dickhead or not.
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Old December 8 2013, 04:25 PM   #109
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
...
You could at least stand by what you said which was that there must be some truth to Cumberbatch thinking Abrams was a dickhead even if he said it in joking.
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Old December 8 2013, 05:28 PM   #110
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.
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Old December 8 2013, 05:51 PM   #111
JWPlatt
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BillJ wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
...
You could at least stand by what you said which was that there must be some truth to Cumberbatch thinking Abrams was a dickhead even if he said it in joking.
I've been quite clear that it's the article that suggests it. I also said Abrams is one. But I have not said Cumberbatch said it with any more intent than as a joke. I have said it resonates as humor because the truth in it is that there are enough people who do believe it's true, and Cumberbatch must at least be aware of that to make the joke. If it pleases you, think of it as Cumberbatch mocking those of us who believe Abrams is a dickhead.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.
I'll quote myself on this point - something I wrote in response to something similar from BillJ, who has not chosen to address it and apparently forgot my first sentence in his latest retort:
Not that Cumberbatch meant any of it, and not that he and Abrams are anything but friendly, but do you really think the motion picture industry is full of people who don't think the people they work with are dickheads and still sign the contracts?
Mod note: I would have combined the above two posts, but I don't see how to delete this post after moving the text to the previous post.

Last edited by M'Sharak; December 8 2013 at 08:51 PM. Reason: merged 2 posts into one
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Old December 8 2013, 06:10 PM   #112
Kelthaz
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.
I wasn't aware of that rumour. He would make an excellent Sith Lord.
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Old December 8 2013, 08:50 PM   #113
M'Sharak
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post

Mod note: I would have combined the above two posts, but I don't see how to delete this post after moving the text to the previous post.
If I remember correctly, a post count of 1000+ is required for full deletion of posts (though an edit to "post deleted" should be possible now.) For these, I'll just merge the two.
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Old December 8 2013, 08:56 PM   #114
Dukhat
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
The article made the implication that you persist in confusing.
I'm not confusing anything. Your quote was quite clearly twisting BC's words around to suit your own beliefs. And you keep insisting that there are so many people out there that think Abrams is a dick and that's what makes the quote so funny. So where are all these people?

I suspect the truth is that the statement resonates with enough people to be funny whether Cumberbatch thinks Abrams is a dickhead or not.
The quote is funny, but not for the reasons you're ascribing to it.

It doesn't matter what I think.
Now this is true.
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Old December 8 2013, 09:48 PM   #115
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Even assuming Abrams is a fucking dick... what does it matter?
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Old December 9 2013, 12:59 AM   #116
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Yeah, I'm not even sure what this conversation is about any longer.

So about that Khan thing, huh? I think that marketing a summer blockbuster action film without an identifiable villain is a bad idea. It can work if done properly, but in this case I think it left the trailers feeling empty. I think if the marketing for the film had been focused on "James Kirk's greatest enemy returns" rather than "some random terrorist with a generic name does stuff" it would have done better at the box office.
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Old December 9 2013, 07:52 PM   #117
Gaith
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Lance wrote: View Post
I don't see why you wouldn't shout it from the rooftops that Khan is in your movie. If the bad guy were somebody else from TOS then I could understand wanting to maintain some degree of keeping it seperate. But Khan is one of the franchises most iconic villains (for better or worse), heck he's one of the few villains that the wider public *would* recognize thanks to the "Khaaaaaaaannnnn!!!" soundbite entering popular culture. From a marketing perspective, it really makes absolutely no sense to pretend he isn't in the movie when he actually is.
Well, to be fair (I guess) - and there's a belated reply to JarodRussell here - the script as writen very much encourages the hidden marketing and big reveal. If they'd advertised the "RETURN OF KHAN!!!" but only had our heroes learn his true identity halfway through, and at no point actually learn what made him such a fearsome figure in the first place, general audience and fan reaction would doubtless have been that the return of such a storied villain was a big ol' box o' nothing.

If, however, Khan had been the openly identified villain throughout the movie, it would have been impossible to keep that under wraps. It's only because the name Khan is such a small part of the story that they were able to do so - which in turn explains why it was so meaningless.
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Old December 11 2013, 09:17 PM   #118
suarezguy
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

As someone who avoids spoilers but inadvertently (memoryalpha) learned that Khan was in in some way involved in ID, I didn't figure Harrison would be him and was surprised when he was revealed to be but that quickly turned to being underwhelmed.
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Old December 15 2013, 02:55 AM   #119
Shaka Zulu
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

BillJ wrote: View Post
Let's all just agree J.J. Abrams is the Anti-Christ and move on.
Okay, then we can also agree that most Star Trek fans are what I've said they were before, and move on.
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Old December 15 2013, 02:58 AM   #120
BillJ
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Let's all just agree J.J. Abrams is the Anti-Christ and move on.
Okay, then we can also agree that most Star Trek fans are what I've said they were before, and move on.
I think you missed that my post was a bit sarcastic.
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