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Old December 8 2013, 05:11 AM   #16
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Re: Garak: A good guy?

I wouldn't say Garak was a "good guy." But he was my favorite character on DS9, just for the sheer entertainment.
Live as if you were to die tomorrow.
Learn as if you were to live forever.
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Old December 8 2013, 05:33 AM   #17
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Re: Garak: A good guy?

If you are including novels, then yes, Garak is a 'good' guy. He clearly has a lot to atone for, and his struggle to put aside his worse nature for the greater good is probably one of my favorite story-lines from the novels. He's shown himself as a strong ally of the Federation, and considered the federation president one of his close friends.

...but even then, he would never choose the Federation over Cardassia. He will go down with the ship.

Its worth noting that even in 'A Gutted World', Garak siding with the federation was not him turning against Cardassia. At that point, Garak realized that most of the command structure of Cardassia had been replaced with changelings. Or he suspected they had been, so the only way to help Cardassia was to side with the federation.

The closest thing you get to a Garak choosing the federation over Cardassia is in the Millennium trilogy, when everyone gets bumped into the future. But in that instance
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Old December 8 2013, 06:21 AM   #18
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Re: Garak: A good guy?

A not-so-wise man once wrote: "You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to. So that, when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in." I've always thought that described Garak perfectly.

He never gave the Federation (Julian) more than was required and was always sure to give it with a smile. And, as we know, he buried the truth in as many lies as that smile could hold.

In turn, he never the Federation as far as he could throw it. He may have warmed to specific individuals, but they do not represent the whole. And, had the Fed turned on him at any time, he would have immediately found a nice spot to jam the dagger.

OTOH, he was doggedly loyal to the Cardassia, probably to a fault.

But non of that makes him a "bad" guy. He's certainly not a shining beacon of altruism, but he's not inherently evil either.

BTW Mimi, I love your avatar. So much so, I'm going to steal it.
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Old December 10 2013, 07:24 PM   #19
Re: Garak: A good guy?

Love the character, but not a "good guy" in the true sense of the term. Reminds me of the old line, maybe LBJ said of someone, "He may be an SOB, but he's our SOB." Garek himself said it.

And if Garek was the Sheridan of DS9, does knocking up the housekeeper make Tain the Arnold Schwarzenegger of DS9?
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Old December 10 2013, 07:31 PM   #20
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Re: Garak: A good guy?

GENERAL_DS wrote: View Post
In the novelverse he is an earth ambassador, I agree with most of the novelverse so i guess that he would always choose Cardassia first. Being good or evil is purely cultural, in his cardassian eyes he might think he is a good guy, in our eyes he is morally not so good, but then again, sisko had his moments too
I dunno, I think cases like murder and slavery transcend cultural considerations.

At least, if we don't make exceptions for extreme violations of other people's rights, we are nihilists and should live our lives cynically playing the system and manipulating everything to get whatever we want all the time no matter the effect on anyone else.

But Garak seemed like even though he strongly believed the ends justify the means, he believed Cardassian citizens should enjoy basic freedoms. That's why he protected Quark's girlfriend in that early episode.
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Old December 12 2013, 11:13 PM   #21
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Re: Garak: A good guy?

Garak was always on the side of Cardassia, it just so happens, for a while, The Federation's goals lined up with "His Cardassia's" goals. I don't think that he believed he was working against Cardassia when opposing Dominion rule by aligning with The Federation, I believe he felt he was working for Cardassia, just as Damar eventually did.
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Old December 14 2013, 04:19 PM   #22
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Re: Garak: A good guy?

I'd agree, Garak was only a good guy when his goals were either the same as yours or at least not conflicting. However unlike mods 'bad guys' he realised that life was easier and intel could be more fruitful if he was actually nice to people. Remember his exchange with Dukat about the cloaked Klingon fleet approaching Cardassia.
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