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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 4 2013, 11:05 PM   #931
jimbotron
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I wonder, though, how much of their decision to use DNR is related to just providing the public what the public thinks it wants -- a grain-free picture.
It's a happy coincidence. Audiences are ignorant and studios are lazy. With film almost dead in filmmaking - only a handful of directors still use film - the issue might get worse because audiences will be even more accustomed to a grain-less appearance. The issue wouldn't be such a problem if grain removal didn't also remove texture and detail.

It's the same issue as the widescreen debate in the late 90s/early 00s all over again. Joe and Susie Walmart wanted movies that filled their 4x3 screens, and some studios were happy to oblige since they could just recycle old masters.

The reciprocal is happening now. Some are pissed that 4x3 content doesn't fill their 16x9 screens now. I suppose Citizen Kane should be colorized now while they're at it....
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Old December 5 2013, 04:58 PM   #932
Hober Mallow
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
It's the same issue as the widescreen debate in the late 90s/early 00s all over again. Joe and Susie Walmart wanted movies that filled their 4x3 screens, and some studios were happy to oblige since they could just recycle old masters.

The reciprocal is happening now. Some are pissed that 4x3 content doesn't fill their 16x9 screens now. I suppose Citizen Kane should be colorized now while they're at it....
It seems like no matter what the shape of our TVs, there is always a vocal group who insist on chopping movies to pieces. In the 4:3 days, people wanted widescreen movies cut to fill the TV screen; today, people want old 4:3 shows cut in order to fill the screen. Kind of defeats the purpose of preserving the original movie/TV series.
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Old December 5 2013, 05:18 PM   #933
Savage Dragon
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
With film almost dead in filmmaking - only a handful of directors still use film - the issue might get worse because audiences will be even more accustomed to a grain-less appearance.
Even digital film technologies yield grain when shooting at high ISO levels in low light conditions. The "problem" of grain in the picture isn't going away just yet.
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Old December 5 2013, 09:48 PM   #934
ATimson
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
Even digital film technologies yield grain when shooting at high ISO levels in low light conditions. The "problem" of grain in the picture isn't going away just yet.
They exhibit noise, but that's a very different thing from grain.
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Old December 5 2013, 10:02 PM   #935
Beta-Z
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

As i understand it, grain is already part of the film material which is already there BEFORE filming anything, plus it contains valuable picture information such as color & detail.
When it's filtered out, some picture information is lost along with it.

Noise is just disturbing the actual content.
Even my cheap mobile cam produces noise, the darker the room, the higher the noise level.
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Old December 5 2013, 10:06 PM   #936
Savage Dragon
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

ATimson wrote: View Post
TheSeeker wrote: View Post
Even digital film technologies yield grain when shooting at high ISO levels in low light conditions. The "problem" of grain in the picture isn't going away just yet.
They exhibit noise, but that's a very different thing from grain.
Based on my experience with digital photography, the more you try to get rid of the noise the more detail you lose. It may not be grain but the effect is the same.
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Old December 6 2013, 02:13 AM   #937
Indysolo
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The sharpness control on your TV does not add anything. It is akin to the treble knob on your stereo. It controls high frequencies on your display. A lower setting is better, as all it does is bring out noise not meant to be seen.
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Old December 6 2013, 04:54 AM   #938
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Yeah, sharpness setting is just a relic of the CRT settings. On HDTV, the picture is already sharp that having such a feature is utterly worthless.
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Old December 7 2013, 05:09 PM   #939
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Yeah, sharpness setting is just a relic of the CRT settings. On HDTV, the picture is already sharp that having such a feature is utterly worthless.
I would not agree: Even if the display is sharp, the source material - even if in 1080p - sometimes is not. Here an example of original TNG bluray footage additionally sharpened; it can bring out more details and emphasize edges without enhancing the grain too much (left original, right sharpened):



Source: http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnail...bum=71&page=18

I have a 42" Panasonic Plasma, and I have sharpening always slightly enabled, because it enhances slightly blurry HD material like the TNG blurays.
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Old December 7 2013, 07:39 PM   #940
jimbotron
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

It does look sharper, but it also looks artificial IMO. There have been certain BD releases that have that sharpened artificial look throughout (Back to the Future), which turns me off.
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Old December 7 2013, 10:27 PM   #941
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Every sharp picture looks artificial for you? Okay.
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Old December 7 2013, 11:54 PM   #942
jimbotron
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Salinga wrote: View Post
Every sharp picture looks artificial for you? Okay.
No. Every artificially sharp picture does. What you employed was edge enhancement. The image on the right appears to have video noise (Picard's forehead, and behind his head)

I'd rather see a soft edge rather than a sharp edge with haloing and other artifacts.
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Old December 7 2013, 11:57 PM   #943
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I prefer seeing the footage as it's meant to be seen. One thing that annoyed me about the remastered Star Wars DVD was that Lucas increased sharpness on scenes he originally shot with a diffusion/soft filter.
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Old December 8 2013, 01:19 AM   #944
Salinga
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Well, the footage was ment to be seen on NTSC analog TV sets. If you are such a purist, you shouldnt go for the Blurays, you should go for the US DVDs.
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Old December 8 2013, 02:17 AM   #945
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I was referring to the HD masters, of course.
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