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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old December 5 2013, 09:14 AM   #31
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Mytran wrote: View Post
This problem could be negated if the "real life" distance between the discs is larger on the FP segments along the horizontal length, around 11'-15' for each complete segment. However, the presence of a crewmen at the far end makes this unlikely - he just doesn't seem that far away!
Wow, that's one spectacularly bad job of linking. Quote your own message and look what you did. hee hee
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Old December 5 2013, 10:18 AM   #32
Mytran
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Glad I could make you smile.
I've fixed the original, but people can still link on your post should they wish to learn what we're on about.
LESSON: Always proof read your work!
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Old December 5 2013, 01:31 PM   #33
blssdwlf
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

You could treat the short length as connecting not directly to the warp nacelles but to the energizers and the energizers extend horizontally (but not visible because they are above deck) to the stern and that connects to the nacelles.

Or, you could extend the horizontal segment that is beyond the last disk and consider it long enough to make the diagonal conduits reach the warp pylons. Remember the vertical segment at the bottom of the vertical conduit was extra long as well.
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Old December 5 2013, 03:31 PM   #34
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Or, you could relocate the main engine room level one deck below (I doubt that the upper level could possibly fit in the forward bow) and simply extend the length of the Y-split tubes before they reach the warp nacelles.

On the original set these were quite asymetrical. Theoretically these y-split extensions could also be power lines for the aft phaser port and starboard. I don't think it makes a lot of functional sense to have that much empty space extending on the FP painting beyond the Y-split.

Bob
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Old December 5 2013, 03:48 PM   #35
F. King Daniel
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Huh, all this time I somehow thought the horizontal intermix chamber was actually too long to fit, not too short.
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Old December 6 2013, 09:49 AM   #36
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

If you wanted to pass the studio set as both the impulse engine room (in the saucer) and the warp engine room, you could only fit the engine room set as impulse engine room into the saucer believing that the forced perspective / actual set is the real thing "in-universe", too.

Otherwise the "pretended" length of the horizontal tubes would not fit into the saucer, indeed.

Bob
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Old December 6 2013, 10:09 AM   #37
Mytran
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Agreed, if adopting the set for the saucer section (although you would need some very short crewmen assigned to Impulse Engineering!)

However, as far as placing the Engine Room in the secondary hull, we have more space to play with - and indeed need to fill! The large cavern aft of the Y-split is an oddity - is there really nothing that Starfleet Engineers could think of to do with the space?
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Old December 6 2013, 04:52 PM   #38
blssdwlf
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Mytran wrote: View Post
However, as far as placing the Engine Room in the secondary hull, we have more space to play with - and indeed need to fill! The large cavern aft of the Y-split is an oddity - is there really nothing that Starfleet Engineers could think of to do with the space?
LOL, apparently not.
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Old December 6 2013, 10:48 PM   #39
SchwEnt
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

^^^ Looking at that screencap gives me an idea.

It seems that curved ceiling over the conduit is intended to match the curve of the top of secondary hull (where engineering is located).

But it appears to me that curvature wouldn't expand out to match the diameter of the secondary hull where the cargo deck/shuttle hangar is located a few decks just below engineering.

Maybe someone better than me with geometry and photo skills could measure the degrees of curve seen in the photo and calculate the size of the secondary hull based on this screencap evidence.
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Old December 7 2013, 12:15 AM   #40
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

@ Mytran & blssdwlf

Maybe I got an idea: it's a wall of transparent aluminum and the space behind is filled with liquid deuterium?

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
It seems that curved ceiling over the conduit is intended to match the curve of the top of secondary hull (where engineering is located).
That was probably the idea, but we'd still have to accomodate the space for the upper level of the engine room and the large bulkhead door that came from above in TWOK.

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
But it appears to me that curvature wouldn't expand out to match the diameter of the secondary hull where the cargo deck/shuttle hangar is located a few decks just below engineering.
I'm working on several cross-section views of the engineering hull with the studio sets within. My preliminary work shows that to match the curvature of the outer hull the engine room would have to be located just above the ceiling of the cargo deck

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
Maybe someone better than me with geometry and photo skills could measure the degrees of curve seen in the photo and calculate the size of the secondary hull based on this screencap evidence.
I think we'd arrive at an overall length of less than 1,000 feet.

Bob
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Old December 7 2013, 08:04 AM   #41
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Here's the photo from the book The Making of Star Trek The Motion Picture, in which the camera was positioned incorrectly to sell the illusion.

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Old December 7 2013, 10:54 AM   #42
drt
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Other than the angle of the vertical tube, the rest still looks OK, so I guess there was some utility to using it with different angles as long as the bottom of the tube couldn't be seen.

Also, I never appreciated until some of the photos in this thread is that the room is asymmetrical and the starboard side much shallower than the port. I wonder if the idea was a turbolift shaft could run along that side. It also has a nice synergy with the original series engine room and it's asymmetric ceiling.
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Old December 7 2013, 04:33 PM   #43
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

drt wrote: View Post
Other than the angle of the vertical tube, the rest still looks OK, so I guess there was some utility to using it with different angles as long as the bottom of the tube couldn't be seen.
Looks to me as if they were trying to hide the shadow the physical / "real" engine core element was casting "towards" Scotty.

Good thing they realized the engine core looked weird and instead went for the correct angle, where that shadow was noticable (but sill hard to see):



Please notice that the page excerpt (thanks Maurice) refers to the whole thing as "engine core". That's also what the screenplay said, so I shall use that term henceforth.

Since it powers both engines (i.e. impulse and warp drive) that term makes a lot of sense where in contrast TNG's "warp core" was exclusively powering the warp drive.

drt wrote: View Post
Also, I never appreciated until some of the photos in this thread is that the room is asymmetrical and the starboard side much shallower than the port. I wonder if the idea was a turbolift shaft could run along that side. It also has a nice synergy with the original series engine room and it's asymmetric ceiling.
That was my first thought, too. I shall make of couple of graphic sketches to see how turbo lift transfer from the saucer into the engineering hull could work.

Bob
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Old December 7 2013, 05:30 PM   #44
F. King Daniel
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Maurice wrote: View Post
Here's the photo from the book The Making of Star Trek The Motion Picture, in which the camera was positioned incorrectly to sell the illusion.

This pic just made a memory explode in the back of my head. Many years ago, The Mirror Universe Saga comics, a picture that bewildered me at the time. Now I know what the artist was looking at when he drew a bent warp core on the refitted 1701!
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Old December 7 2013, 06:28 PM   #45
blssdwlf
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
drt wrote: View Post
Other than the angle of the vertical tube, the rest still looks OK, so I guess there was some utility to using it with different angles as long as the bottom of the tube couldn't be seen.
Looks to me as if they were trying to hide the shadow the physical / "real" engine core element was casting "towards" Scotty.
I don't think they were trying to hide anything as the "making of" photo is to the left of the actual filming camera which is visible to the bottom right corner of the photo. It just looks like a behind the scenes photo of the camera and setup that also exposed the forced-perspective painting in a clear way.
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