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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 5 2013, 04:17 AM   #91
Set Harth
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Because of Iron Man 3?
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Old December 5 2013, 04:24 AM   #92
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Ah, so IM3 is #1 for reasons besides just goodwill to The Avengers.
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Old December 5 2013, 05:15 AM   #93
Agenda
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Would a movie without Khan have been more successful at the box office? I think the inclusion of Khan muddled the plot more than helped it. And since Khan wasn't even used as a marketing tool to begin with, I don't see why it truly helped.

Did the majority of fans "really" want Khan or was it more that Abrams and co. assumed that fans wanted Khan? I think a few people wanted him, but I think it's more the latter. I suspect the Abrams brain trust were under some notion that they were giving a valentine (lol Enterprise) to the fans, like they were doing us a favor or something. I think that most of us would prefer that the past remain the past and that the Trekiverse move on to brave new things.

Hollywood always seems to do this. It's like it has this remake mentality where they constantly want to push the old and familiar on to us. But they rarely replicate the old magic, and it often comes across as a pale imitation. Superman Returns suffered from this, so did Prometheus, and so did this film.
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Old December 5 2013, 08:29 PM   #94
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Khan himself weighs in...

Benedict Cumberbatch wrote:
‘What a dickhead,’ chuckled Cumberbatch when informed of Abrams’ comments.
‘The amount of times we had to lie for him… the amount of times I had to talk about it not being my character! No, I love him,’ continues the star, ‘but I don’t know if it was a bad or a good thing… the intention was to have a reveal in the audience that was going to be thrilling. That worked to an extent. Not everybody knew what they were in for when they went into the theatre… for those people it was a good thing… There was a verbal and physical reaction to it [in theatres I saw it in], so it kind of works.’
http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/sci...s-jj-dick.html
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Old December 6 2013, 12:33 AM   #95
AllStarEntprise
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^ That is brilliant.
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Old December 6 2013, 01:31 AM   #96
JWPlatt
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I wondered if maybe King Daniel invented that quote just as parody. But there it is in the article. My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that. Nice work all around, unless GFR is a parody site like Onion - I don't know..
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Old December 6 2013, 05:54 AM   #97
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
I wondered if maybe King Daniel invented that quote just as parody. But there it is in the article. My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that. Nice work all around, unless GFR is a parody site like Onion - I don't know..
Er, no, you're taking this completely out of context. Anyone with an ounce of sense (or who is not already extremely biased and a self-proclaimed Abrams-hater as you seem to be) can see that Cumberbatch feels nothing of the sort toward Abrams. His quote is analogous to me calling my deceased wealthy father a "dickhead" for only leaving me 99 million dollars in his will instead of a hundred million.
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Old December 6 2013, 06:35 AM   #98
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
I wondered if maybe King Daniel invented that quote just as parody. But there it is in the article. My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that. Nice work all around, unless GFR is a parody site like Onion - I don't know..
Not really a parody site—they do report legitimate sci-fi entertainment and science news stories—but they are known on occasion to be rather irreverent. This would be one such occasion. Probably.

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Old December 6 2013, 08:33 AM   #99
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
^ That is brilliant.
Well, in my opinion, what's really brilliant is that Cumberbatch impersonator they got in to read their script for that fake interview (about half-way down the page). Now he's fantastic! Where did they find that guy?
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Old December 6 2013, 09:09 PM   #100
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
I wondered if maybe King Daniel invented that quote just as parody. But there it is in the article. My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that. Nice work all around, unless GFR is a parody site like Onion - I don't know..
If he truly thought Abrams was a dickhead, why would he want to work with him again? Supposedly, he's already signed on for Star Wars: Episode VII and has said he'd like to play Khan again.
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Old December 6 2013, 10:04 PM   #101
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Agenda wrote: View Post
Would a movie without Khan have been more successful at the box office?
Maybe. As successful? Hard to say.

I think the inclusion of Khan muddled the plot more than helped it.
Not really.

And since Khan wasn't even used as a marketing tool to begin with, I don't see why it truly helped.
Hence Abrams's point.

Did the majority of fans "really" want Khan or was it more that Abrams and co. assumed that fans wanted Khan? I think a few people wanted him, but I think it's more the latter.
I did. But the decision to use Khan wasn't about the fans. It was about the non-fans. And even with the reveal as it was, it surely helped some:

"Grr. Arrg. I am super evil guy who's better at everything. My name is John Harrison."

"Who?"

"A long time ago in this same galaxy I was called 'Khan'."

"Oohhhhhh!"

Dramatic art always does this. Its remake mentality to push the old and familiar on to us is part of its nature.
FTFY
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Old December 6 2013, 10:40 PM   #102
Hartzilla2007
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Someone needs to tell this guy that we didn't get into SW as kids because it was "dark and gritty".
Yeah, I guess we just all hate The Empire Strikes Back now

Which is funny seeing as from what i can tell the general censuses is that A New Hope.
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Old December 7 2013, 07:06 AM   #103
JWPlatt
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

BillJ wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
I wondered if maybe King Daniel invented that quote just as parody. But there it is in the article. My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that. Nice work all around, unless GFR is a parody site like Onion - I don't know..
If he truly thought Abrams was a dickhead, why would he want to work with him again? Supposedly, he's already signed on for Star Wars: Episode VII and has said he'd like to play Khan again.
Not that Cumberbatch meant any of it, and not that he and Abrams are anything but friendly, but do you really think the motion picture industry is full of people who don't think the people they work with are dickheads and still sign the contracts?
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Old December 8 2013, 04:30 AM   #104
Dukhat
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^Maybe, but you don't call someone a dickhead in public and then expect to ever work for them again. Unless the caller and the callee both know it's just a joke with no undertones of seriousness, which is exactly what this was. You're the one who implied that Cumberbatch was somehow actually thinking this, which is of course completely wrong.
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Old December 8 2013, 04:51 AM   #105
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

It's likely jest on his part. You can't throw insults like that unless you're legends like Sean Connery.
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