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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 4 2013, 11:34 PM   #91
DonIago
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
Actually? Mandatory organ donation doesn't seem like the worst idea ever, if we're talking post-death at least. I mean really, you're not getting any use out of them anymore...

It's my understanding that when the Baku found the planet it was already claimed by an interstellar power that later ceded the area to the Federation. In short, at best the Baku were ignorant of the existing claim; at worst they deliberately flaunted said claim.
And what happens when a doctor lets a man die because he knows someone needs a heart in the hospital? What happens when someone feels that their culture is violated by cutting into the dead body and removing anything?
You're doing a great job of looking past the basic issue to things that would need to be discussed if and when there was a movement in such a direction.
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Old December 5 2013, 12:10 AM   #92
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
Actually? Mandatory organ donation doesn't seem like the worst idea ever, if we're talking post-death at least. I mean really, you're not getting any use out of them anymore...

It's my understanding that when the Baku found the planet it was already claimed by an interstellar power that later ceded the area to the Federation. In short, at best the Baku were ignorant of the existing claim; at worst they deliberately flaunted said claim.
And what happens when a doctor lets a man die because he knows someone needs a heart in the hospital? What happens when someone feels that their culture is violated by cutting into the dead body and removing anything?

And welcome to every "horror story" ever told by someone that "knows someone that the EMT/Paramedics let die cause they were an organ donor".

And by the way: the portions of the UK already moving towards doing "presumed permission" for organ donation.
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Old December 5 2013, 12:45 AM   #93
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
And welcome to every "horror story" ever told by someone that "knows someone that the EMT/Paramedics let die cause they were an organ donor".
I used to believe in that kind of crap. I stopped it, for two reasons:

1) It is incredibly insulting to medical professionals of all kinds, to ever think that they would deliberately let someone die, for ANY reason.

2) In any case, if you are an organ donor and you go to the hospital when you're sick, the team treating you is completely separate from the transplant team. So the doctor in charge of saving your life has nothing to do with transplants!
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Old December 5 2013, 01:35 AM   #94
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet, they're not natively immortal, and no one is telling they have to "upgrade" their lives or embrass technology. All that would happen is that they'd pack up and move to another planet, and if the wanted to go back to living without technolgy they're free to do it.



Ru ru, chu wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
And welcome to every "horror story" ever told by someone that "knows someone that the EMT/Paramedics let die cause they were an organ donor".
I used to believe in that kind of crap. I stopped it, for two reasons:

1) It is incredibly insulting to medical professionals of all kinds, to ever think that they would deliberately let someone die, for ANY reason.

2) In any case, if you are an organ donor and you go to the hospital when you're sick, the team treating you is completely separate from the transplant team. So the doctor in charge of saving your life has nothing to do with transplants!
Yeppers. It also defies basic common sense. As if such a thing could be ongoing and common enough that it's a real concern and yet some how the people doing it would somehow avoid prosecution or fail to bring notice to the issue.
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Old December 5 2013, 01:59 AM   #95
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet,
So what they still colonized it meaning its their planet.
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Old December 5 2013, 02:02 AM   #96
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet,
So what they still colonized it meaning its their planet.
Not necessarily. It just depends who the planet belonged too when they settled it and how the Federation came upon ownership of it.

Even if it's vacant, someone can't move onto your property and claim it as their own.
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Old December 5 2013, 02:34 AM   #97
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

By all indications, the Ba'ku were the first sentient beings to claim their planet.
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Old December 5 2013, 03:19 AM   #98
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet, they're not natively immortal, and no one is telling they have to "upgrade" their lives or embrass technology. All that would happen is that they'd pack up and move to another planet, and if the wanted to go back to living without technolgy they're free to do it.
But what about the Baku children and young adults who were born on the planet? Aren't they now natives of the planet and immortal.
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Old December 5 2013, 03:21 AM   #99
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Vasquez Rocks wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet, they're not natively immortal, and no one is telling they have to "upgrade" their lives or embrass technology. All that would happen is that they'd pack up and move to another planet, and if the wanted to go back to living without technolgy they're free to do it.
But what about the Baku children and young adults who were born on the planet? Aren't they now natives of the planet and immortal.
That may have been a good point...shame the movie never brought that up.
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Old December 5 2013, 04:37 AM   #100
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

To be honest, I stopped caring about whether they "counted" as native or not by the time the movie finished running because the Baku are sanctimonious hypocrites; at least the only mouthpieces we get for them are. They decry using technology and fighting, but they're A-okay with it being used FOR them as long as they don't personally press the buttons/pull the triggers. Plus, they seem like one of these villages hiding a dark secret anyway, with their perfect little village of white people with perfectly clean garments despite allegedly working fields and stuff all day. Don't even get me started on this vague "you take something away from the man" BS either. You take WHAT away from the man when use use tools to help with tasks?! Apparently nothing, going by your fancy irrigation system.

I was rooting for the Sona by the end.
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Old December 5 2013, 11:24 AM   #101
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Vasquez Rocks wrote: View Post
But what about the Baku children and young adults who were born on the planet? Aren't they now natives of the planet and immortal.
That would describe the Sona, and once the particles are harvested, the Sona and many others can benefit from them, not just the Baku.

There is no reason to believe that after being moved the Baku wouldn't also have access to the particles.

Just not exclusive access.

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
"The moment we pick up a weapon, we become one of them. We lose everything we are."
And how did they get the Sona off the planet?

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Old December 5 2013, 12:11 PM   #102
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

You completely ignore that the Son'a wanted to completely destroy the planet. The children surely don't have the right to burn the home of the parents down, even if it sat on a gold mine.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
That may have been a good point...shame the movie never brought that up.
The movie brought it up as soon as it SHOWED that there were children on the planet. They even talk about how the children are at normal age, meaning they were born on the planet.


Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet,
So what they still colonized it meaning its their planet.
It's kinda funny. If humans originally came from Mars, alien races would have the right to take Earth away from us as they pleased.


Or is it because they've been there for only 300 years? So how many years does it take before it becomes wrong? 3000 years? 30,000 years? 3 million? HOW MANY YEARS DOES IT TAKE?!

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Old December 5 2013, 12:35 PM   #103
HaventGotALife
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet, they're not natively immortal, and no one is telling they have to "upgrade" their lives or embrass technology. All that would happen is that they'd pack up and move to another planet, and if the wanted to go back to living without technolgy they're free to do it.



Ru ru, chu wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
And welcome to every "horror story" ever told by someone that "knows someone that the EMT/Paramedics let die cause they were an organ donor".
I used to believe in that kind of crap. I stopped it, for two reasons:

1) It is incredibly insulting to medical professionals of all kinds, to ever think that they would deliberately let someone die, for ANY reason.

2) In any case, if you are an organ donor and you go to the hospital when you're sick, the team treating you is completely separate from the transplant team. So the doctor in charge of saving your life has nothing to do with transplants!
Yeppers. It also defies basic common sense. As if such a thing could be ongoing and common enough that it's a real concern and yet some how the people doing it would somehow avoid prosecution or fail to bring notice to the issue.
Here's the thing--They have been on the planet longer than the United States has been a country. What if the American Indians decided to re-take the land today? It's their planet, that's the point.
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Old December 5 2013, 12:41 PM   #104
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Here's thing with the Baku: They are not native to the planet,
So what they still colonized it meaning its their planet.
Not necessarily. It just depends who the planet belonged too when they settled it and how the Federation came upon ownership of it.

Even if it's vacant, someone can't move onto your property and claim it as their own.
Look into the history of Utah. That's EXACTLY what the Mormons did after they were persecuted in Missouri and Illinois. It's vacant land, not someone else's.
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Old December 5 2013, 12:43 PM   #105
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
You completely ignore that the Son'a wanted to completely destroy the planet. The children surely don't have the right to burn the home of the parents down, even if it sat on a gold mine.
So will the 300-year old 'children' (Sona) ever have any rights to the planet?

Actually I think they have the same rights. If the Baku have more rights because they managed to banish their children (another group of settlers) from the planet should the Federation become involved in an internal skirmish one way or the other.
You can say Picard was rectifying the situation but he really gave the Baku the upper hand. It seems like because they were pretty.
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