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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 4 2013, 03:14 AM   #61
JarodRussell
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

And if you're worried about people being afraid of having to read up on Trek history, why not simply market it with “This is not your father's Khan?“ like they did in the first film?
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Old December 4 2013, 03:18 AM   #62
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JJ should have just stuck with John Harrison and actually try and build some momentum to this new Trek universe. And instead of a reboot we got a rehash. What really irks me is that $195 million went into this movie and there was a significant delay since JJ wanted the right script (or something he said in 2012 or 2011?) and this was it? A finished product which amounted to no more than an average blockbuster summer movie?

With all that time and money the final outcome was something rather timid and unadventurous. It would have been cool to simply explore a lot more the consequences of what happened in ST 2009, and ST 2009 -- a decent movie by the way -- did some insane stuff and it felt daring and adventurous.

I wonder if STID is a beginning of a trend for new ST movies. Are they going to be a collection of Star Trek's greatest 'hits' or iconic characters/moments? If JJ and Hollywood are anything to go by they're going to be playing increasingly safe... And boring.
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Old December 4 2013, 03:54 AM   #63
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Hazel wrote: View Post
Bearing in mind I haven't seen STID so I don't know how well the reveal was handled, I thought the 'teasing' got a bit tedious, at least for fans.

PR dept: "There a super-sekrit villain surprise in STID!"
Fans: "It's Khan, isn't it?"
PR dept: "It's an awesome surprise!"
Fans: "Yeah, it's Khan,"
PR dept: "Nooo, Cumberbatch is playing John Harrison, tee-hee!"
Fans:"Guys, we know it's Khan."
Karl Urban: "It's Gary Mitchell! Oops, I totally leaked the secret!"
Fans: *sigh*

6 months later:

Cumberbatch: "My name is Khan!"
Fans: "No shit, Sherlock."
Exactly, you've summed up there exactly why the marketing of the movie sucked so much. My reaction to it actually being Khan wasn't one of "WOW, JJ AND HIS GUYS REALLY KEPT *THAT* A SURPRISE!!!!", it was more like an anti-climax, a sort of "Geeze, so all that was just a load of BS?".

I felt disappointed in a way I probably wouldn't have been if they'd just come out and said it is Khan... or indeed, if they'd just come out with the 'John Harrison' ruse earlier. That's the thing that baffled me. They let the rumor mill trundle on for ages before coming up with this crap about 'Harrison'. It didn't whet people's appetites, it just made it look like they were hiding something... like, y'know, that it's Khan or something.

Somebody fumbled the ball on this one. JJ is doing his best to make sure nobody thinks it was him.
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Old December 4 2013, 03:54 AM   #64
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
And if you're worried about people being afraid of having to read up on Trek history, why not simply market it with “This is not your father's Khan?“ like they did in the first film?
If you're not going to try and cash on the iconic nature of Kahn, why would you Market Kahn?
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Old December 4 2013, 04:11 AM   #65
Lance
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I don't see why you wouldn't shout it from the rooftops that Khan is in your movie. If the bad guy were somebody else from TOS then I could understand wanting to maintain some degree of keeping it seperate. But Khan is one of the franchises most iconic villains (for better or worse), heck he's one of the few villains that the wider public *would* recognize thanks to the "Khaaaaaaaannnnn!!!" soundbite entering popular culture. From a marketing perspective, it really makes absolutely no sense to pretend he isn't in the movie when he actually is.
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Old December 4 2013, 04:19 AM   #66
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Man, JJ loves passing the buck to other people. He seems to have a little Shia LaBeouf in him, admitting mistakes to get in good with the internet crowd.
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Old December 4 2013, 04:30 AM   #67
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Nothing about Abrams' regret over lens flares or retailer exclusives. So sad...
I can't imagine why you thought that making this post was a good idea. You'll know why it gets you a warning, though.
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Old December 4 2013, 06:22 AM   #68
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Man, JJ loves passing the buck to other people. He seems to have a little Shia LaBeouf in him, admitting mistakes to get in good with the internet crowd.
He's a Hollywood executive, and those kind of people are really good at telling fans what they think they want to hear. For example, look at everything he has said about his upcoming Star Wars film, that it would be more in line with the original trilogy, be more dark and gritty, ect. All that doesn't really mean anything, but it's getting many excited and relieved after the prequel trilogy. He's good at this stuff.
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Old December 4 2013, 06:39 AM   #69
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

My problem with JJ is I'm not sure if he's more interested in making a good movie or a money making movie. Did he really think that Khan would be better, or did he allow the script to be compromised because he thought it would increase the $$$?
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Old December 4 2013, 07:19 AM   #70
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Nothing about Abrams' regret over lens flares or retailer exclusives. So sad...
I can't imagine why you thought that making this post was a good idea. You'll know why it gets you a warning, though.
It's a valid point. That question from the interviewer felt planted to me, because JJ wanted to send out a message about what others here say is more JJ bullshit and lie: to say it's not his doing or his fault. My point being the interviewer is just a lapdog and JJ doesn't have the sincerity to answer real questions that would involve - you know - an honest answer. That was the point of what I posted previously. Sorry you missed it. Sorry I had to spell it out.
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Old December 4 2013, 07:51 AM   #71
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Ln X wrote: View Post
JJ should have just stuck with John Harrison and actually try and build some momentum to this new Trek universe. And instead of a reboot we got a rehash. What really irks me is that $195 million went into this movie and there was a significant delay since JJ wanted the right script (or something he said in 2012 or 2011?) and this was it? A finished product which amounted to no more than an average blockbuster summer movie?

With all that time and money the final outcome was something rather timid and unadventurous. It would have been cool to simply explore a lot more the consequences of what happened in ST 2009, and ST 2009 -- a decent movie by the way -- did some insane stuff and it felt daring and adventurous.

I wonder if STID is a beginning of a trend for new ST movies. Are they going to be a collection of Star Trek's greatest 'hits' or iconic characters/moments? If JJ and Hollywood are anything to go by they're going to be playing increasingly safe... And boring.
TMP was more of a rehash of The Changeling than STID was a rehash of TWOK, and this is despite the fact that a few individual scenes were beamed largely intact from TWOK straight into STID. I'm not trying to excuse STID for its faults. Rather, I'm simply pointing out that there not being much new in Trek films would be, well, nothing new, except that not having anything new to offer frankly isn't true of STID. The drone strike metaphor alone was worth the price of admission; for being critical of ongoing US policy in a time of war, how can anyone call that timid?

As for STID being "no more than an average blockbuster", well, first of all, "average blockbuster" is an oxymoron. If every Trek film were an average blockbuster, then we'd be sure of Trek movies forever. So, yay! Secondly, [domestic, worldwide] whaddayawant? Look at what STID beat: Wolverine, my goodness it creamed the Johnny Depp vehicle, it's almost certainly gonna hammer Thor domestically....
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Old December 4 2013, 10:26 AM   #72
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Ln X wrote:
JJ should have just stuck with John Harrison...
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Old December 4 2013, 10:34 AM   #73
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Why assume an original character as John Harrison would be a Khan rip off? The idea of a former Section 31 agent gone rogue sounds closer to Jason Bourne than a Khan rip-off. I would have actually preferred to see that character than the watered down Khan.
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Old December 4 2013, 11:09 AM   #74
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

A human with super strength and speed? Even the mortal baddies like Shinzon get labeled Khan ripoffs.

I thought this Khan was excellent, far from watered-down. Kirk and Khan working together to stop Admiral Marcus blew my nerdy little mind in the cinema - and when Khan lost his temper after being stunned... bloody hell. And then that was rendered nothing once he thought (for the second time) that his people had been killed. I saw "Space Seed" on TV yesterday and couldn't help but think that even including "Wrath of Khan" it's now the "good" version of how Khan meeting the Enterprise turns out compared to the mass destruction and body count wrought in ID.
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Old December 4 2013, 02:09 PM   #75
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Wrong. John Harrison would have just been a normal human, not person with mega strength and speed. Khan's superhuman traits were added after Lindelof convinced the writers into making him Khan.
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