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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: So what did you think?
Brilliant: Geronimo. 188 77.69%
Very Good: Bow Ties are Cool! 38 15.70%
Ok: Come along Ponds. 10 4.13%
Passable: Fish Fingers and Custard. 5 2.07%
Terrible: Who da man? 1 0.41%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 1 2013, 01:42 AM   #556
Sindatur
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Gov Radner wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
Susan wasn't on Gallifrey. Would she have gotten "recalled"?

Of course, if she wasn't on Gallifrey, the whole "last of the Timelords" concept gets a little silly.
I can imagine when things started to get desperate (Before they really went off the rails and brought back Rassilon and didn't care about others anymore) Susan and Romana (And any other "nice" Time Lords that may have been running around) would have run back home to Gallifrey to help (They've both fought The Daleks). The Master, I can see how he was purchased (He goes through Regenerations like Water). The Rani, never made any sense to me, though, I can't imagine how they could bribe her to go back, she only cares about her experiments. What could they offer her, that she couldn't do better for herself, without them around?
Protection from the Daleks as they go about hunting down any strays. I can even see her helping them out so long as she could continue her experiments and be killed by them when she'd served her usefulness to them.
I actually think I can see her taking Sanctuary with the Daleks, thinking she has the upper hand, easier then imaging her going home to Gallifrey (Especially if The Daleks stumbled upon invading a Planet she was using as a laboratory)
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Old December 1 2013, 01:46 AM   #557
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Gov Radner wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
I can imagine when things started to get desperate (Before they really went off the rails and brought back Rassilon and didn't care about others anymore) Susan and Romana (And any other "nice" Time Lords that may have been running around) would have run back home to Gallifrey to help (They've both fought The Daleks). The Master, I can see how he was purchased (He goes through Regenerations like Water). The Rani, never made any sense to me, though, I can't imagine how they could bribe her to go back, she only cares about her experiments. What could they offer her, that she couldn't do better for herself, without them around?
Protection from the Daleks as they go about hunting down any strays. I can even see her helping them out so long as she could continue her experiments and be killed by them when she'd served her usefulness to them.
I actually think I can see her taking Sanctuary with the Daleks, thinking she has the upper hand, easier then imaging her going home to Gallifrey (Especially if The Daleks stumbled upon invading a Planet she was using as a laboratory)
Explaining away the Rani that way seems quite in character for her. A lot easier than some of the other renegades floating around from the old series.
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Old December 1 2013, 01:46 AM   #558
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
A thought which occurred to me: what is now the status of the Doctor's family? He's said throughout the series that they're all dead, but is this something he actually knew or just what he naturally assumed given they were on Gallifrey at the end of the Time War?
The woman in white from The End Of Time is presumably alive (and it's just occurred to me that for her the current Doctor is John Hurt).

Other than that, it's hard to say. But this exchange from The Curse Of Fenric (1989) may be of interest:

Kathleen: "Do you have any family yourself?"
The Doctor: "I don't know."
Kathleen: "Oh, I'm sorry. It's the war, isn't it? It must be terrible not knowing."
The Doctor: "Yes."
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Old December 1 2013, 04:02 AM   #559
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Here's a thought: The Time War wasn't just fought at Gallifrey, but throughout all of space and time. There were references in "The Night of the Doctor" to all of reality burning and the universe being on the brink of annihilation. It seems to me that the war caused widespread devastation throughout the universe, and while some worlds were permanently lost (like the homeworlds of the Gelth and the Zygons), others probably had their histories reset so the damage was erased/forgotten (like Earth, no doubt due to the Doctor's intervention). But since Time Lords exist outside of time and are evidently immune to historical alteration (since the Doctor remembered people and events erased by the Cracks in Time), it's possible that the downside is that dead Time Lords aren't revived when history is reset.

Although, wait, the reason both sides kept changing history was so they could erase their defeats and fight the battles over again, which suggests that dead Time Lords could be revived. Still, the war was widespread enough that it's possible the likes of the Rani, Susan, Romana, the Meddling Monk, and other such travelers and exiles could've fallen prey to it even if they weren't actively seeking to participate.
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Old December 1 2013, 04:15 AM   #560
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Yea, I think The beginning of The Time War, was pretty much like we saw The Great Intelligence and Clara in The Name of The Doctor, and All of Space and Time got caught up in Collateral Damage due to the constantly changing histories of The Daleks and The Time Lords. I think the Ground Assault we saw in The Day of The Doctor, was when the Daleks decided to take the Time Gloves off and directly attack Gallifrey (Or maybe this "Hand to Hand" combat, came about because of the Time Lock, when neither side was able any longer to use Time Travel tactics)
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Old December 1 2013, 04:35 AM   #561
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Well they do say they've used up all the crazy time travel weapons in the movie. When the Doctor breaks into the weapons vault the only thing left was the one thing they were unable to use, The Moment.

So basically the opening stages of the War were totally bonkers with Nightmare Childs and Never Weres or whatever they were called... but eventually all stuff was used up and they were down to a flat out invasion.
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Old December 1 2013, 06:19 AM   #562
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Personally, I find that the character in the new series is defined by his guilt and shame over the fact that he can always save the day and find solutions to all manner of problems through "creativity and ingenuity" yet when it came to the Time War the only thing that worked in the end was eradicating his own race.
I would agree that the show & the character had come to be defined by the Doctor's guilt & shame on the new series. Less so during the Matt Smith years but it was still there. And frankly, I'm sick of it. There have just been too many downers on the show in recent years. I mean, every time a companion leaves the show now, it's portrayed as a tragedy of earth-shattering proportions. (Except for Martha, but even that departure was pretty damn maudlin & melancholy.) It had become a show defined primarily by what the Doctor has lost over the years. Even when the writers gave something new to the Doctor, they only did it so that they can take it away later.

Well, to quote John Hurt, "NO MORE"! I like the idea that Gallifrey is out there somewhere. I'm not saying that the Doctor is going to find it anytime soon, nor should he. (It's possible that Moffat has more specific plans but I suspect that the Doctor won't find Gallifrey for at least another 5-8 seasons.) I just like the idea that the Doctor has something to hope for and something to move towards.

But then, I suppose I'm less bothered by this development then some people because I always figured that the Time Lords would come back in some capacity. (Heck, I was fairly surprised that it didn't happen at the end of "The End of Time.")

Christopher wrote: View Post
I like the "Everybody lives!" endings.
Me too.


Don't get me wrong, I like a good death too. But every once in a while, the hero just needs to win.
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Old December 1 2013, 01:10 PM   #563
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Watched it again last night and thought it was great - except for the stick-out-like-a-sore-motherfucking-ten-foot-thumb Jon Culshaw impression of Hartnell. Which is so bad I didn't realise until re-viewing that it was supposed to *be* Hartnell and not Tom...

Why the fuck didn't they get the pitch-perfect Hartnell impersonator from that Youtube remake of the now-lost trailer for An Unearthly Child? Y'know, the one guy who actually sounds like Hartnell?
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Old December 1 2013, 01:15 PM   #564
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

But it wasn't Jon Culshaw. It was John Guilor.
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Old December 1 2013, 02:52 PM   #565
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

<looks at the credits again> fucking hell, so it *was* the same guy - so why was he so fucking Jon Culshaw in this when we know he can do it perfectly elsewhere?
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Old December 1 2013, 07:10 PM   #566
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

After rewatching it I think the timeline of the Doctor's may have actually changed. There is a line in there about timelines being out of sync (Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey) and that the War Doctor won't remember trying to save it but instead burning it.
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Old December 1 2013, 07:25 PM   #567
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

No, the "timelines out of sync" reference was a bit of continuity porn to retroactively explain why, in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors" in the classic series, the later Doctors never seemed to remember the events from the perspective of their earlier selves. Fans have been wondering about that for decades, so Moffat, who's the ultimate ascended fanboy/continuity geek, threw in a line to "explain" it.

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.
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Old December 1 2013, 07:35 PM   #568
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Christopher wrote: View Post
No, the "timelines out of sync" reference was a bit of continuity porn to retroactively explain why, in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors" in the classic series, the later Doctors never seemed to remember the events from the perspective of their earlier selves. Fans have been wondering about that for decades, so Moffat, who's the ultimate ascended fanboy/continuity geek, threw in a line to "explain" it.

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.
The second Doctor remembered Omega as we learned in The Five Doctors and the tenth Doctor took the memory of the fifth Doctor to solve the problme in Time Crash. There's realyl very little evidence to support the idea that they can't remember meeting their previous selves.
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Old December 1 2013, 07:36 PM   #569
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Christopher wrote: View Post
If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.
In your opinion. The episode itself supports both cases, at least.
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Old December 1 2013, 07:42 PM   #570
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Personally, I find that the character in the new series is defined by his guilt and shame over the fact that he can always save the day and find solutions to all manner of problems through "creativity and ingenuity" yet when it came to the Time War the only thing that worked in the end was eradicating his own race.
I would agree that the show & the character had come to be defined by the Doctor's guilt & shame on the new series. Less so during the Matt Smith years but it was still there. And frankly, I'm sick of it. There have just been too many downers on the show in recent years. I mean, every time a companion leaves the show now, it's portrayed as a tragedy of earth-shattering proportions. (Except for Martha, but even that departure was pretty damn maudlin & melancholy.) It had become a show defined primarily by what the Doctor has lost over the years. Even when the writers gave something new to the Doctor, they only did it so that they can take it away later.

Well, to quote John Hurt, "NO MORE"! I like the idea that Gallifrey is out there somewhere. I'm not saying that the Doctor is going to find it anytime soon, nor should he. (It's possible that Moffat has more specific plans but I suspect that the Doctor won't find Gallifrey for at least another 5-8 seasons.) I just like the idea that the Doctor has something to hope for and something to move towards.

But then, I suppose I'm less bothered by this development then some people because I always figured that the Time Lords would come back in some capacity. (Heck, I was fairly surprised that it didn't happen at the end of "The End of Time.")
Well while Gallifrey was saved there's still the billions who died during the Time War and ones who lost their homeworlds like the Zygons, Gelth and Nestines, they're stil dead and gone and there's little chance of them returning to life. And the return of Gallifrey also means the possiblity of a restart of the Time War since the Daleks are now back up to their full power as well.

Doctor Who has always has a balance of tragedy and comedy. And it seems as though whenever they do a lighter ep. on the newer series they're always seen as being to lightweight in people's eyes, so in a way they can't seem ot win.
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