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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old November 30 2013, 08:46 PM   #16
Mytran
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Wow, I am really missing out by not having that Making of TMP in my collection - something to remedy soon I think
The apparent length of the corridor depicted in the painted backdrop is very close to the long corridor outside the Transporter Room (with just a couple of tweaks) and I strongly suspect it was used as the model.
Although I estimate 5 feet for the lower Engine Room, I'd be very interested in learning the actual floor depth as it really seems less than the one shown in TNG and TUC. Would the TV series really have excavated another 2' of stage out on their budget? I honestly don't know! But it would make more sense to have been there all along, just filled with backlight machinery. IMHO.


CorporalCaptain &Christopher - You're right of course about it being a personal interpetation of the footage - I got a little too "Thermian" back there stating it as fact.

I would argue that screen graphics be exempt from the need for squinting though, since they exist to provide certain information rather than a scale-accurate picture. There's a similar "erroneous" graphic on the wall of the TNG Bridge (the width of the saucer is reduced to better fit it all in). I think the graphic shape is duplicated on the table in Engineering, but in both cases these are technical diagrams, not scale blueprints.
YMMV.

I hope one thing we can agree on is that the FP effect was spoiled on too many occasions by the wrong sort of camera angles.

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And the number of TOS Engine Rooms is definitely a discussion for another thread!
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Old November 30 2013, 09:19 PM   #17
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

I'd wager they didn't "dig" a pit at all. In fact, I suggest there was already a pit on that stage in that location, which would explain why they put the engine room where it was in the overall set plans.
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Old November 30 2013, 09:41 PM   #18
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Mytran wrote: View Post
And the number of TOS Engine Rooms is definitely a discussion for another thread!
Here is one from last year: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=196048

It's strange, indeed, that the engine room set was deeper in TNG and TUC. Could have made that floor painting in TMP a little easier.

Bob
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Old December 1 2013, 08:56 AM   #19
QuinnTV
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Maurice wrote: View Post
I'd wager they didn't "dig" a pit at all. In fact, I suggest there was already a pit on that stage in that location, which would explain why they put the engine room where it was in the overall set plans.
The stages at Paramount have a basement level. Many of the Trek props, costumes and set pieces were stored there over the years. The warp core extended down into this area.
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Old December 1 2013, 10:50 AM   #20
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

QuinnTV wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
I'd wager they didn't "dig" a pit at all. In fact, I suggest there was already a pit on that stage in that location, which would explain why they put the engine room where it was in the overall set plans.
The stages at Paramount have a basement level. Many of the Trek props, costumes and set pieces were stored there over the years. The warp core extended down into this area.
I knew some of the stages did. Do all of them?
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Old December 1 2013, 09:37 PM   #21
QuinnTV
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

That, I don't know.
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Old December 1 2013, 09:47 PM   #22
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

QuinnTV wrote: View Post
That, I don't know.
Then it's probably more accurate to say:

Some of the stages at Paramount have a basement level. Many of the Trek props, costumes and set pieces were stored in these over the years. The warp core probably extended down into this area.
Yes?
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Last edited by MauriceNavidad; December 1 2013 at 10:02 PM.
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Old December 2 2013, 12:44 AM   #23
QuinnTV
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Sure.

I'll clarify my statement beyond your corrections. According to Doug Drexler, Stage 18 featured a storage space that included Trek items. Stage 9, home of the warp core, does have a permanent 18' x 30' x 8' deep pit.

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Old December 2 2013, 09:22 AM   #24
Mytran
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

That explains the 7' depth on the TNG set - the extra foot would have been needed for the floor covering and light-up grid seen so prominently in TUC. There would also have been room for the Jefferies Tube pit nearby.
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Old December 4 2013, 01:32 PM   #25
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Upon re-examination I believe the TMP intermix "tower" wasn't a "floor" painting but rather some large canvas. When they rolled it out again for TWOK you can notice wrinkles "on" the walls of the level below.

It looks like it was rolled out over a backlit transparency sharing the pulsating plasma energy effect of the upper tower structure (i.e. that part of the canvas was cut out).

Nevertheless, they seemed to have lighting issues and further needed to illuminate the canvas with lights, apparently hidden by the two ladies looking at the impulse engine fuel flow display. You can notice the shadow the physical intermix tower set element casts "towards" Scotty.

Probably some light source at the bottom of the set for the intermix shaft visual effect needed to be hidden, hence this solution?

Bob
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Old December 4 2013, 03:03 PM   #26
Mytran
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Great find on the wrinkles! It does make sense that it could be rolled for easy storage. It might also explain those strange "floorboards" we see in TMP during one scene, since they might well be the actual floor!

I found a picture in my "Making of Phase 2" book that might be interesting:


The FP disc segments are clearly seen, diminishing in size as the tube goes on. What's interesting is that the "crystal" segments do not diminish in length (nor are they built beyond a simple connecting rod, since they were never going to be seen on screen.
The backdrop painted is set up and ready, and I do wonder if the idea was ever toyed with of extending the tube even further by included it on the painting. This really would have increased the size and scope of the Engine Room a lot more!

The "real life" length of the horizontal tube can now be estimated more easily, if required - there are 10 FP segments and 3 full size segments - 13 in all, plus the conical junction to the vertical tube.

If each horizontal segment is about 4' in length then the overall length of the tube would be 52'
YMMV, of course
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Old December 4 2013, 04:00 PM   #27
Robert Comsol
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Mytran wrote: View Post
The "real life" length of the horizontal tube can now be estimated more easily, if required - there are 10 FP segments and 3 full size segments - 13 in all, plus the conical junction to the vertical tube.

If each horizontal segment is about 4' in length then the overall length of the tube would be 52'
YMMV, of course
Great picture! But eye-balling the full size segments and assuming Shane Johnson got the reproduction correct (he had been visiting the set) I'd get a length of almost 7' for each H-shaped segment which would put the "real life" pretended overall length of the horizontal shaft at 87' or 26.5 meters (assuming, of course, all elements are supposed to have the same length).

Bob
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Old December 5 2013, 02:48 AM   #28
blssdwlf
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Upon re-examination I believe the TMP intermix "tower" wasn't a "floor" painting but rather some large canvas. When they rolled it out again for TWOK you can notice wrinkles "on" the walls of the level below.
It's interesting that the shot still works for the FP bottom given that it is at a slightly different angle as shown in TMP.
That's neat.
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Old December 5 2013, 07:25 AM   #29
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Mytran wrote: View Post
If each horizontal segment is about 4' in length then the overall length of the tube would be 52'
YMMV, of course
That doesn't take into account the thickness of the rings, right?
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Old December 5 2013, 08:22 AM   #30
Mytran
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Re: Forced perspective, painted backdrops and the refit Enterprise

Maurice - Yep, I had brain cramp and forgot about the thickness of the discs, oops!

Looking at the picture again (which I didn't do during my hurried earlier entry) I would have to agree with Robert_Comsol - on this ocassion, Shane Johnson may have got it right!

1' for each disc
5' for each transluscent section
So each complete "segment" is 7'

Total length (not including the connecting cone) is 87'
From the cente of the vertical conduit to the start of the first full segment is approx 4' (based on the length of the transluscent section & checked against Shane Johnson)

Now, if the engine room (on a 1,000' TMP-E) is in its official location centred on the Impulse Deflection Crystal, then the horizontal tube at the V-split would not quite reach the pylons (40'-80' short, depending on where the conduit enters the pylons).

This problem could be negated if the "real life" distance between the discs is larger on the FP segments along the horizontal length, around 11'-15' for each complete segment. However, the presence of a crewmen at the far end makes this unlikely - he just doesn't seem that far away!

Maybe they should have used the backdrop painting after all?

Last edited by Mytran; December 5 2013 at 10:15 AM.
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