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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 23 2013, 07:57 AM   #1471
Anwar
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
As a side note. I hate the concept of gold kryptonite. What a stupid concept. How exactly do you "permanently" take away the powers of a being who by nature, soaks up radiation from the yellow sun and stores it in their cells? It would have to be something that not only can destroy genetic coding, but rewrite DNA to be exactly like a human being's.
In the Superman/Batman Generations story that's exactly what it does do: It changes the DNA of a Kryptonian into Human DNA.
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Old November 23 2013, 01:13 PM   #1472
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

All I can say is that there's a reason they tried to jettison such elements of the Superman mythos with the Byrne reboot of the 80s. The Pocket Universe that the Kryptonian criminals came from was modeled on the Silver Age version of things, as part of an ultimately unsuccessful continuity implant to allow for Superboy to have still factored into the Legion's continuity post-Crisis.
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Old November 23 2013, 07:22 PM   #1473
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The Lensman wrote: View Post
Name them or shut up.

At this point you're just a blithering kid who spent a lot of time getting emotionally invested in wanting to hate a movie, look authoritative on something and made a lot of noise about it on the internet. You've ridiculously made allowances for times when he's killed and lived in a world with hundreds of heroes to help and more fantastic tech at his disposal. In the case of Doomsday, it's clear you differentiate the two situations because one looks like a scary, hulking "monster" and one looks like a regular person.

This Superman had neither of those options listed to him available at the time. But you're too invested and entrenched in holding a specific opinion that you made a lot of noise about in front of everyone, and because you can't back down now, you point to inane examples where Superman had more options open to him, yet still killed and say "he had no choice" or "the stakes were higher" even when the "stakes" were exactly the same. You look more and more ridiculous, if that's even possible, every time you reply.

But I need a good fucking laugh, so give the specifics on what these "other options" were. Go ahead. Keep in mind that Zod, having just murdered THOUSANDS of American citizens is subject to American law, and since we executed Bin Laden for less death and destruction, Zod would be found guilty and sentenced to death. And since nothing human made affected Zod, Superman would have to carry out the execution. He doesn't get to escape our laws or punishments.

So let's hear these options that don't result in Superman killing him. I mean, I guess Superman could spend the rest of his days struggling to keep him in a bear hold or something.
WHOA! Take a breather and calm down, please. There is no cause to react this way in a discussion about a fictional character.

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Old November 30 2013, 04:52 AM   #1474
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

The Nostalgia Critic recently did a review of Man of Steel. Doug Walker (Nostalgia Critic) who hates the film and Joe Vargas (Angry Joe) who loves the film did a joint review looking at the pros and cons of the film. I think the review did a pretty good job at covering both sides of this debate and it's worth a watch if you have the time. Unfortunately, you need quite a bit of time.

Given the extreme love it or hate it reception Man of Steel received they decided to make a lengthy review. 49 minutes to be exact. Yeah, a bit overkill, but it's worth watching.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/vid...9-man-of-steel
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Old November 30 2013, 11:32 AM   #1475
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ I watched the review and I did find it very even handed. Even if Angry Joe came off as more as a screaming fanboy than an objective critic at times.

I just thought of something funny. When you think about the divided consensus regarding MOS. It's just as polarizing as Superman Returns is/was. Fans and general audiences can't coalesce around a Superman movie and declare it great and inspiring like the first 2 films by Donner and Lester. Oh well just have to keep counting boxoffice grosses to measure success.
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Old November 30 2013, 01:41 PM   #1476
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Or perhaps both films missed the mark, each in its own way. As I expressed way upthread, IMO, somewhere between the two is a great Superman film that we haven't seen yet.
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Old November 30 2013, 03:35 PM   #1477
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
^ I watched the review and I did find it very even handed. Even if Angry Joe came off as more as a screaming fanboy than an objective critic at times.

I just thought of something funny. When you think about the divided consensus regarding MOS. It's just as polarizing as Superman Returns is/was. Fans and general audiences can't coalesce around a Superman movie and declare it great and inspiring like the first 2 films by Donner and Lester. Oh well just have to keep counting boxoffice grosses to measure success.
I think it's because the first two films by Donner and Donner/Lester were classics. Returns and Man of Steel were made recently, and therefore could never be considered such. Much more effort was put into movies and stuff back then as opposed to now. Now, it's all about "flashy" stuff and titlation.

Just my take.
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Old November 30 2013, 03:47 PM   #1478
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^ well to be fair Superman Returns looks and feels a lot like Superman the movie. It wasn't completely verbatim but it hit all the same chords. It tried to capture the poetry and fairytale aspect of the 1978 film for the 2006 audience and people just weren't feeling it. It's a good movie, it's shot, acted and directed well. However it's a terrible superhero movie. There is no challenge or adventure that Superman is living through. Things just happen and he shows up. Really Bryan Singer's fault for applying an ensemble type movie format (like X-Men or Usual Suspects) to a character who who requires singular focus.

Man of Steel isn't perfect but you can see where they tried to differentiate themselves from what had come before. Threading the needle was the hardest part they never quite managed.
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Old November 30 2013, 04:07 PM   #1479
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Perhaps we should compromise? The people who want to see a flawed badass hero can watch the new Superman and the people who want to see the old noble and astounding Superman can go to Thor movies.
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Old November 30 2013, 04:26 PM   #1480
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I must be one of the few who doesn't worship the '78 Superman or Superman II. There are some things I like in them but also a lot I don't like, namely the overt camp.

I don't have a problem with Superman killing Zod. It doesn't go against what has been established before in comics or onscreen. And the moment you bring a fictional comic book character into the live-action medium and try to treat it with any measure of realism you're going to run into a challenge.

The '78 film is very much like a comic book, but there are things in it that might work in a comic book but don't work as live-action unless yoy want to treat it all as a joke. When you're a kid you mightn't notice that so much, but from an adult perspective you notice incongruities. In some ways the '78 Superman reminds me of the Adam West Batman (though not to the same extreme). If you want to laugh at the absurdity then that works. But if you like your superheroes with some measure of gravitas then you have to tone the obvious absurdities down a few notches.

After watching The Avengers seeing the level of destruction and collateral damage in Man Of Steel was really no different. In both cases the hero or heroes are grossly outnumbered. In the end they prevail, but realistically it couldn't happen without some extensive collateral damage. Also when you're dealing with an opponent with deadly force and deadly intent you really can't pussyfoot it with them.

Superman was one lone individual outnumbered by opponents of equal strength. He was also new in the role of being a superhero. Like Indiana Jones said in Raiders Of The Lost Ark, "I haven't got a plan. I'm making it up as I go." (or words to that effect). Superman doesn't have the time to plan and needs to make split second decisions. And as a solitary individual taking on numerous opponents there is no way a novice hero can take the time to save everyone trapped in wreckage or hanging from a suspended girder or whatever. An experienced Superman might have dealt with things differently as they were presented in MoS, but in MoS we don't have an experienced Superman.

The one problem I have with this movie is the fight scene at the end felt too dragged out. It felt endless and ultimately pointless. I feel much the same way when I see similar scenes in DCAU direct-to-video features.

Man Of Steel faces a similar challenge as Watchmen did. There is what the film is and there is what some viewers were expecting or wanted the film to be. One's expectations and wants have next to nothing to do with what the film is. This is the film the producers wanted to make. This is their interpretation of Superman and his universe. The question is: does it work within its own context? Does it work on its own merits?

Most of the issues I see raised about MoS seem based on the film not being what some viewers expected or wanted. Fair enough, but then that doesn't address whether the film works within its own context.

If you hold the '78 film as the standard then I can see why you might take issue with MoS. But then I don't hold that film as the standard. I prefer the early George Reeves Superman and from that perspective I don't have much problem with MoS.
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Old November 30 2013, 05:49 PM   #1481
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I find it curious that someone has to defend his opinion about Superman's character to such an extend.

Thinking of Superman II, there are several things about the character that annoyed me. His decision to give up his powers, then how he became a pussy without his powers (and then even worse, how he becomes a bully when he gets his powers back), and his decision to kill the three Kryptonians even though they didn't have their powers anymore. I didn't like it back then, and I don't like it now.

In Superman Returns, I hated how he becomes a pussy when he loses his powers, and how he misuses his powers to spy on Lois.

And seriously, no amount of "But it's been done this way before." is going to change that. Because the way it's been done before is also how I didn't like it.
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Old November 30 2013, 06:46 PM   #1482
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
In Superman Returns, I hated how he becomes a pussy when he loses his powers
Kryptonite doesn't just take away his powers, it slowly and painfully kills him. In that example, he was under the influence of Kryptonite. Traditionally, being exposed to Kryptonite causes Superman to lie helplessly in pain until somebody takes it away.
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Old November 30 2013, 06:52 PM   #1483
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I have no love whatsoever for the Donner Superman movies. They were just ok to me as a kid and they feel extremely dated and of their time now.
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Old November 30 2013, 06:53 PM   #1484
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I have no love whatsoever for the Donner Superman movies. They were just ok to me as a kid and they feel extremely dated and of their time now.
Ditto.

I can safely say that I have never liked a live action Superman film. That's a little depressing actually.
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Old November 30 2013, 07:35 PM   #1485
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I know people here don't really like Confused Matthew, but he just started his Man of Steel review, by reviewing the first part, the Krypton stuff. He usually releases full reviews over a few weeks time, so expect other parts soon. I am sharing this because it's funnier than he's been for a while, and he's right on the money.

LINK


I think Donner's films (I'm talking the first one and the Donner/Lester version of the second) were great. It really felt that this is who Superman is as a person... someone we can all hope to be. He doesn't steel clothes from people, as he did in Man of Steel, or come of like a snide bully. And, during the big city battle with supervillains, he concentrated less of his efforts on actually fighting Zod, and more on making sure that people didn't get hurt. This is Superman, folks. Like it or not, that's who Superman is. After Returns came out, people complained that he didn't punch anyone, but then, in Man of Steel, he punched Zod literally 50 times in the film, but that didn't make movie any better, did it?
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