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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 29 2013, 08:05 PM   #46
2takesfrakes
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Unfortunately, I do not see an Alpha Centuri mission on the horizon. But putting discs of gold and records and every indication of who and what we are on the VOYAGER probes would've made alot more sense if, indeed, they were enroute to the nearest star. Now, who the balls knows where they'll end up? Probably nowhere, just floating like debris, for all eternity. This whole idea of one such probe falling into a Black Hole sounds very childish to me, as well. We all know that Black Holes will simply crush anything out of existance. It couldn't possibly serve as passage to the far corners of the galaxy. Was this just a Seventies' idea?

I liked what you had mentioned before, about Decker's supposed infatuation with Mysticism, which just-so-happens to be what was hip in real life, at that time. I have been trying to explore this further, but there is not much record of it, that I have been able to turn up. But layer upon layer, this movie seems to be trying to tie in Humanity's self-perception at that time with the resolution of TMP's storyline. GR went down some interesting roads, here, with Robert Wise and the rest. It's such a shame this is not so evident onscreen. So, tell me Christopher, is your V'ger book trying to make a Borg connection? The Borg seem so far removed and their concerns and M.O. are so very different, that I do not see these two equating.
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Old November 29 2013, 09:27 PM   #47
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, I do not see an Alpha Centuri mission on the horizon.
No, but we'll never get anywhere in interstellar exploration if we limit our imaginations to "the horizon." It's the kind of undertaking that demands a longer-term mentality, planning on the scale of centuries, like the way medieval Europeans designed and built cathedrals. It's not about our own gratification, it's about a legacy for our descendants. Unless we learn to think and act in multigenerational terms once again, we'll never get anywhere in exploring or colonizing the stars.

I recommend browsing around this blog for a while:

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/


This whole idea of one such probe falling into a Black Hole sounds very childish to me, as well. We all know that Black Holes will simply crush anything out of existance. It couldn't possibly serve as passage to the far corners of the galaxy. Was this just a Seventies' idea?
Actually it makes some sense if you assume it was a rotating black hole approximating a Tipler cylinder. An object passing through the ergosphere of a rotating (Kerr) black hole -- essentially brushing the edge of the event horizon rather than falling in -- could conceivably be sent on a closed timelike curve into the past.

The spatial relocation is harder to justify. A sufficiently large black hole would have a mild enough gravity gradient that an object could conceivably survive passage through the event horizon, and a Kerr BH would have a ring-shaped singularity that could theoretically function as a "portal" to another region of spacetime. But we'd be talking something on the scale of a supermassive, galaxy-center black hole rather than something that could pass near Sol System undetected.


I liked what you had mentioned before, about Decker's supposed infatuation with Mysticism, which just-so-happens to be what was hip in real life, at that time. I have been trying to explore this further, but there is not much record of it, that I have been able to turn up.
I'd say the main sources for that are the Roddenberry novelization and The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture by Susan Sackett and Roddenberry.


So, tell me Christopher, is your V'ger book trying to make a Borg connection? The Borg seem so far removed and their concerns and M.O. are so very different, that I do not see these two equating.
Absolutely, emphatically not. In fact, I went out of my way to present a version of V'Ger's backstory that was completely incompatible with the ridiculous idea that it had anything to do with the Borg.
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Old November 29 2013, 09:47 PM   #48
Therin of Andor
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Voyager 1 been programmed by NASA to change its path to investigate Pluto, it would've gone on to leave the Solar System and, even now, would be heading towards Alpha Centuri? Only they changed this plan...
'Cos the Robinson family were already headed there.

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Decker's supposed infatuation with Mysticism, which just-so-happens to be what was hip in real life, at that time. I have been trying to explore this further, but there is not much record of it, that I have been able to turn up.
You don't get around much.

The novelization of TMP contains most of what we know about Decker's beliefs and aspirations.

The Perscan monitor buckles on the Starfleet uniforms were said to measure biorythms, also very "hip in real life" in the mid-70s when TMP was in pre-production.
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Old November 29 2013, 09:48 PM   #49
Robert Comsol
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Oh boy. That star thing next to the two humans is supposed to be the sun's position in relation to 14 pulsars? Who the hell are they kidding. Nobody is going to understand the meaning of that.
The bottom illustration with the distinctive planets of our system and the probe's departure point cleearly says "Here we live" (and don't mind being found).

But given the vastness of space that's definitely not enough, so you have the pulsars and their wavelength's and relative distances to our system as a means to triangulate.

This is a simple, elegant and logical concept. Practically, you can't get "Lost in Space" because the pulsars / quasars and their different wavelengths serve as galactic GPS satellites.

I'd say that any spacefaring civilization would make use of these "GPS" celestial bodies - and therefore understand the message.

The central console on the refit bridge shows these pulsars / quasars to pinpoint the Enterprise's location in space.

Bob
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Old November 29 2013, 10:27 PM   #50
2takesfrakes
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Christopher wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, I do not see an Alpha Centuri mission on the horizon.
I recommend browsing around this blog for a while:

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/
I shall do so

Christopher wrote: View Post
Actually it makes some sense if you assume it was a rotating black hole approximating a Tipler cylinder.
I ... I suppose so.


Christopher wrote: View Post
... I went out of my way to present a version of V'Ger's backstory that was completely incompatible with the ridiculous idea that it had anything to do with the Borg.
These words please me.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Voyager 1 ... would've gone on to leave the Solar System and ... head towards Alpha Centuri
'Cos the Robinson family were already headed there.
"The Robinson Family," you say ... interesting. Interesting!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
The Perscan monitor buckles on the Starfleet uniforms were said to measure biorythms, also very "hip in real life" in the mid-70s when TMP was in pre-production.
I love this, getting all into the fine details of TMP, where we find out that even the costumes are very much in service of the story. I really love The Motion Picture, partly because there is so much to mine from, with it. Lord knows, the rest of the franchise certainly did.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with why biorythms, or mystic beliefs were a turn-on, in the Seventies, just as technology was taking true root in every day terms. How could anyone justify believing that Love Potions work, even to themselves, knowing full-well that it's all just a bunch of simple tricks ... and nonsense.
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Old November 30 2013, 04:29 AM   #51
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I am not familiar with why biorythms, or mystic beliefs were a turn-on, in the Seventies, just as technology was taking true root in every day terms.
Well, because biorythms used technology and mathematics, like astrology, but the readings seemingly made more sense than horoscopes, which simply divided the Earth's population into twelve each day.

A school friend had a cute little biorhythm calculator and we used to always know which were our "good" days for our physical, emotional and intellectual states - and heaven forbid if an exam was scheduled for the day when all three aspects were in the low range. A good day to stay in bed!

http://www.facade.com/biorhythm/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorhythm
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Old November 30 2013, 05:51 AM   #52
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I am not familiar with why biorythms, or mystic beliefs were a turn-on, in the Seventies, just as technology was taking true root in every day terms.
Well, because biorythms used technology and mathematics, like astrology, but the readings seemingly made more sense than horoscopes, which simply divided the Earth's population into twelve each day.
A properly cast horoscope is much more complex that just a person's sun sign.

Not that it matters, of course -- it's still a load of horse poop.
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Old November 30 2013, 11:38 AM   #53
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

I do believe that personality types can be - and probably even are - dictated by whatever Season a person found themselves born in. Their basic personality is formed in, and altered by, the seasonal environment that's more-or-less imprinted upon them, as they become more aware. And there would be several factors involved with an assessment like that, but I'd suspect that's why Horoscopes continue to seem to hold credence with so many, even today. Naturally, I can take any horoscope, really, and apply its forecast to something happening to me, right now. But is it the illusion of control these people seek, or is it desperation that drives them into this direction? I wonder ...
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Old November 30 2013, 03:57 PM   #54
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Err, it takes years for someone's core personality to form, so everyone would experience every season multiple times in their formative years. And they'd have no memory of what season they experienced first. Not to mention that different parts of the world have different seasonal cycles -- e.g. cold, dry, and monsoon rather than winter, spring, summer, and autumn.
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Old November 30 2013, 04:25 PM   #55
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Well ... it was nice whilst it lasted.
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Old November 30 2013, 09:26 PM   #56
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

I love it when people try to use lunar tidal force and tides to justify some aspect of astrology, completely miscomprehending how tidal forces work. Ah, ignorance.
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Old November 30 2013, 09:33 PM   #57
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And they'd have no memory of what season they experienced first. Not to mention that different parts of the world have different seasonal cycles -- e.g. cold, dry, and monsoon rather than winter, spring, summer, and autumn.
I pity any child born last spring in London, Paris, Glasgow and Edinburgh, because they were still having... winter. I was in it!
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Old December 1 2013, 01:19 AM   #58
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

Therin, I only recently realized that you were the president of your local STAR TREK fan club, back when STAR TREK: The Motion Picture was first released. I was reading a little about your exploits in this capacity in another thread, on this site. I apologize for not remembering which one it was, at the moment. In any case, I really never felt such a compulsion, myself. And to be perfectly honest, here in Philadelphia, PA, I don't believe there is a huge STAR TREK fan base. Although, Cherry Hill, New Jersey, which is close-by, hosts annual conventions and ... and so forth. I'm content to watch the shows and chat about it. I don't think I even owned a STAR TREK costume, when I was a small child. I don't even any TREK merchandise, as an adult. I have a couple novels, that's about it. So, to find out just how involved you really are on the fandom side of town, is very interesting. You sound like the go-to guy for all things STAR TREK ...
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Old December 1 2013, 10:39 PM   #59
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
...back when STAR TREK: The Motion Picture was first released. […] here in Philadelphia, PA...
Sir Frakes, do I correctly infer that you lived in Phila. when TMP came out? I saw it (twice) at the big-screen Fox theater across the street from City Hall, the second last feature ever to play there. I lived in center city at the time (although not in PA since 1982) and as a kid saw 2001 at the same theater, in Cinerama.
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Old December 2 2013, 12:14 PM   #60
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Re: How did V***GER know how to say "V'ger"?

"Therin, I only recently realized that you were the president of your local STAR TREK fan club, back when STAR TREK: The Motion Picture was first released," was what I actually wrote, GottaCook. Maybe it's the accent I'm wearing ...

It's cool that you spent time here in Philadelphia, PA, where bookending all of this city's poverty and dispair are the affluent suburbs and the wealth of center city. The touristy areas are well-policed and we do have a very robust cultural district that's one of the oldest in the country. We are a college town with many a Night Club along the Waterfront. Philly is not a mecca for STAR TREK fans, however. But we've had some great movies made here. In particular, one of my favorites: 12 Monkeys! It's the total Sci-Fi package, as far as I'm concerned ... Oh, and by the way, I do like your "Sir" usage, in association with my name. Makes me feel a kinship with Sir Patrick Stewart. But, yes, back to STAR TREK: It surprises me the kinds of fans that use this site. Everything from STAR TREK novelists to Fan Club Presidents ...
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