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Old November 26 2013, 02:55 PM   #2236
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Re: Mass Effect 3

That's the thing though, they must have known going in what their deadline was and budgeted their time accordingly. As much as I dislike EA's policies, you can't really blame them for Bioware being unable to deliver a completed game in the allotted time. Indeed, if memory serves, they were already granted an extension as I think ME3 was originally due out Q3-4 of 2011.

The simple fact is that they grossly underestimated how important the ending would be to the fans and left it to last. No wonder it felt rushed and half arsed!

I don't think EA told Bioware to stunt cast Chobot in what has to be the most bafflingly pointless character in recent memory, they didn't tell them to chicken out and just photoshop a random model shot off google images and call it Tali's real face and I'm sorry, but no amount of extra time would have made the three choice ending any better.

Indeed as the Extended Cut DLC proved, all the extra time would have done is allow them to plug the most blatant omissions and give some tiny bit of closure.

Incidentally, are all those disciples of "Indoctrination Theory" still banging on, or have they finally given up the ghost?
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Old November 27 2013, 03:32 AM   #2237
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Well, I loved ME3 and felt it was one if the best if the entire generation. The last 5% of the game was terrible only because I felt that it was left unfinished, but for me, it didn't undo the journey I took to get there.
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Old November 27 2013, 04:06 AM   #2238
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Re: Mass Effect 3

If the destination is the bottom of a spike pit, the journey doesn't seem so great.

And you make a lot of good points, Reverend, but I still feel like it's on EA. If the game isn't finished on schedule, the proper response is not "WELL PUT IT THE HELL OUT ANYWAY", it's to ride them harder as you go and give them more time. Give them a new schedule, but make them stick to it and keep closer tabs on development. If they're faffing about, then crack the whip, but shoving out an undone product is never a good business decision. Outside of modern video games, anyway.

Tho the BS about Tali's face, Allers, and how anything on the ending is throwing good writing after bad? Totally legit, I agree 100%.

As far as I know, Indoctrination theory is more or less dead. At this point, I think most people just do what I do and ignore casey and mac's idiocy and substitute our own ending in.
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Old November 27 2013, 05:49 AM   #2239
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Re: Mass Effect 3

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
And you make a lot of good points, Reverend, but I still feel like it's on EA. If the game isn't finished on schedule, the proper response is not "WELL PUT IT THE HELL OUT ANYWAY", it's to ride them harder as you go and give them more time. Give them a new schedule, but make them stick to it and keep closer tabs on development. If they're faffing about, then crack the whip, but shoving out an undone product is never a good business decision. Outside of modern video games, anyway.
EA did give them a new schedule at least once. But they can only afford to throw good money after bad for so long.

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
As far as I know, Indoctrination theory is more or less dead. At this point, I think most people just do what I do and ignore casey and mac's idiocy and substitute our own ending in.
Shepard killed all of Cerberus and stole the Normandy-A from them. THE END.
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Old November 27 2013, 06:50 AM   #2240
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Re: Mass Effect 3

The initial mistake was EA's in giving them such a limited development window. They treated ME3 like it was another generic sci-fi action game when it was an expansive RPG just like its predecessors. Games with that much content to them take a lot more time than typical shooter games do. They made the same mistake with Dragon Age II; fortunately it seems they've wizened up a bit by giving Dragon Age: Inquisition a lot more room to breathe.
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Old November 27 2013, 07:19 AM   #2241
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Re: Mass Effect 3

ATimson wrote: View Post

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
As far as I know, Indoctrination theory is more or less dead. At this point, I think most people just do what I do and ignore casey and mac's idiocy and substitute our own ending in.
Shepard killed all of Cerberus and stole the Normandy-A from them. THE END.
Ha, just as valid as anything we got officially as far as I'm concerned. As for EA, they didn't smartly manage the game to start with, so I find it hard to take their side here.
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Old November 27 2013, 04:16 PM   #2242
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Skywalker wrote: View Post
The initial mistake was EA's in giving them such a limited development window. They treated ME3 like it was another generic sci-fi action game when it was an expansive RPG just like its predecessors. Games with that much content to them take a lot more time than typical shooter games do.
And Bioware knows it, and still committed to being able to hit the date. That's their failure.
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Old November 27 2013, 07:03 PM   #2243
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Re: Mass Effect 3

It's also worth keeping in mind that EA and Bioware aren't exactly separate entities any more.
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Old November 27 2013, 07:24 PM   #2244
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Skywalker wrote: View Post
The initial mistake was EA's in giving them such a limited development window. They treated ME3 like it was another generic sci-fi action game when it was an expansive RPG just like its predecessors. Games with that much content to them take a lot more time than typical shooter games do. They made the same mistake with Dragon Age II; fortunately it seems they've wizened up a bit by giving Dragon Age: Inquisition a lot more room to breathe.
This is my take on it too. EA isn't to blame for ME3's craptastic ending, nor any of the other dumb creative decisions in the games, but they are to blame for putting Mass Effect on a 2-year development cycle. That might be enough time to churn out a shooter with an 8-hour campaign that nobody actually plays, but for games with the scope and detail of Mass Effect that isn't enough time.

I'm hopeful for the next ME game because it seems like they've been given extra time to work it out, which seems to have resulted in the return of exploration and vehicles (if these rumours are true). Besides, this new game will be a fresh start in terms of story and wont have to write its way out of a corner in the same way ME3 did.
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Old November 27 2013, 07:32 PM   #2245
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Re: Mass Effect 3

^No we'll have to wait for ME6 to relive that particular pleasure.

It is encouraging that Bioware appear to be taking their time with both the new Dragon Age and Mass Effect games. If they're sensible, they might be able to alternate these two franchises to one every two years as opposed to one every year, giving the teams a good 4 year cycle with a separate team handling the DLC & MP side of things.

That shouldn't hurt the production of the next game since it'd be mostly done in the first 6-12 months and by people who's skills won't be needed on the next game until production gets into full swing.


Speaking of vehicles; anyone remember when they said the vehicle sections we saw in 'Firewalker' & 'Shadow Broker' were test beds for what they were planning for ME3? And what did we get out of it?...Three or four pointless turret sections.
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Old December 2 2013, 09:45 AM   #2246
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
^No we'll have to wait for ME6 to relive that particular pleasure.

It is encouraging that Bioware appear to be taking their time with both the new Dragon Age and Mass Effect games. If they're sensible, they might be able to alternate these two franchises to one every two years as opposed to one every year, giving the teams a good 4 year cycle with a separate team handling the DLC & MP side of things.

That shouldn't hurt the production of the next game since it'd be mostly done in the first 6-12 months and by people who's skills won't be needed on the next game until production gets into full swing.


Speaking of vehicles; anyone remember when they said the vehicle sections we saw in 'Firewalker' & 'Shadow Broker' were test beds for what they were planning for ME3? And what did we get out of it?...Three or four pointless turret sections.
Ugh, tell me about it. I was so pumped about that, since I adored the Hammerhead. But then no more roving bfg with a shark-themed name. Major sadfaces
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Old December 2 2013, 01:13 PM   #2247
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I wouldn't have minded the turret sections so much, but a few of them felt so out of place. Take the one on the Geth tank: you can't do *any* damage to the reaper whatsoever and it only lasts like 20 seconds. It's only purpose was to convey an moment of epic scale as you're trying to outrun the thing.

Then there's that one mid-way through the London interlude section...I mean, why?! You're going through a series of heartfelt last goodbyes to your crew...and they slap a pointless turret sequence where you shoot a few waves of husks smack in the middle of them. Talk about spoiling the mood!
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Old December 2 2013, 06:53 PM   #2248
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I didn't mind the one on Rannoch, really. It was basically pointless, but it didn't hurt anything. If you don't fire it, everything continues as normal. The only point in firing is to see if it does anything or just for the hell of it.

But the one on Earth was so stupid. It was boring, and it didn't mean anything since no matter if you hit one enemy or all of them, they get swept away by fighters anyhow. And besides that, like you said, this was when we're having all these (honestly fantastic) conversations with friends we've spent years with. The "storming heaven" and "gift" conversations REALLY did not need a pointless pew pew pew interlude.
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Old December 3 2013, 03:32 AM   #2249
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Re: Mass Effect 3

It's almost emblematic of what was fundamentally wrong with the whole game. All the way through what is otherwise a world class narrative are these very very strange creative decisions that leaves one with an odd sense of cognitive dissonance. It's as if some other developer came in afterwards and (metaphorically) doodled little moustaches on the characters faces in a deliberate attempt to sabotage.

At first I just assumed that most if not all of this was down to a lack of time and things being left in an unfinished state. But the more I think about it, the more I find these things that just didn't need to be there at all. Allers, photoshop Tali, half the turret sections...Jacob's mission.

[Rant Incoming!]

I mean come on, Jacob gets hos own mission? Nobody liked that guy! Not only did he somehow manage to be even more boring than Kaiden was in ME1, his loyalty mission was the very definition of pointless. "Hey Shepard, my dad who has been dead to me for years may still be alive, let's go see him!" "Hey dad, you're an awful person and are still dead to me!" I wouldn't have minded him in ME3 so much but five seconds into the mission he sprains his ankle and spends the rest of the time sitting around and shouting at you through the radio. Hell it's even worse if you're one if the 0.001% of players that actually bothered to romance him, since he dumps Shepard about five seconds before he introduces her to his new *pregnant* fiancée. Ouch. Dick move bro!

[/rant]

Yeah, so the time and resources spent on that mission which had no interesting characters and had no impact of the larger story (being yet another Cerberus only fight!) could so easily have been spent elsewhere.

That actually makes me wonder; has anyone done a tally on how often you fight Cerberus vs. how often you fight Reapers? It felt something like a 60/40 split where really it should have been the other way around.
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Old December 3 2013, 05:14 AM   #2250
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
Yeah, so the time and resources spent on that mission which had no interesting characters and had no impact of the larger story (being yet another Cerberus only fight!) could so easily have been spent elsewhere.

That actually makes me wonder; has anyone done a tally on how often you fight Cerberus vs. how often you fight Reapers? It felt something like a 60/40 split where really it should have been the other way around.
This made me curious, so I looked it up by quickly flipping through the mission list Mass Effect Wiki.

Assuming I counted right, of the main missions (the Priority ones): 6 were against the Reapers (Earth, Palaven, Tuchanka, Thessia, Horizon, and Earth). 4 were Cerberus (Mars, Sur'Kesh, Citadel, and Cerberus HQ), and 2 were Geth (Dreadnought and Rannoch).

The side missions were another story. 10 were against Cerberus (including all of Omega counted as 1 mission), 1 against the Geth (+1 if you count the one inside the Geth consensus), 3 against the Reapers (Fuel Reactors, the Monastery, and the Leviathan missions), and 1 against some pathetic merc group while on shore leave on the Citadel.

So yeah, about half of the missions were actually against Cerberus. Huh.
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