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Old November 24 2013, 10:45 PM   #151
stj
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Re: Lt. Kim

teacake wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
From the moment he first stepped on board Voyager, Harry was a Senior Staff Officer, a trusted Senior Bridge Officer, and the Head of Department for the Operations Division, AS AN ENSIGN.

Harry was the Voyager counterpart to Miles O'Brien, yet you don't see people whining about 'poor Miles'.

Harry didn't need a higher physical rank because he was already in a position of authority, and it was a mistake to make a joke out of his lowly physical rank because it cheapened his character and role on the ship.
Maybe you should write a letter to Wang about this.
In the pilot, Kim existed to be saved from Quark by Paris, to be Paris' friend and to be saved from the Caretaker. And worse, saved from a disease contracted during an alien's attempt at reproduction. Wang may have had a regular credit but Kim was never a major character.

But it's more likely that he was on the bridge primarily to be observed by Janeway and Tuvok. It seems to me that it was the crew losses that led to his de facto promotion to senior staff and department head. Which I guess is what led Janeway to be so complimentary to in Twisted, inasmuch as no, green ensigns generally should not be able to meet such responsibility so well. Dating badly is hardly relevant.

A mere ensign being a major department head and senior staff bespeaks great competence. In current militaries, such responsibility must be acknowledged with the appropriate rank. But this sort of thing gets into the question of whether Starfleet is a military organization, and people will never agree on that. But it is clear that not promoting Kim is not a black mark against the character, because if he was incompetent he shouldn't have been senior staff and department head.

On the up side, people can agree that they wouldn't like Kim any more if he was a lieutenant.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:50 PM   #152
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Re: Lt. Kim

His wife was a doctor. Entry level Doctors are Lieutenants. Even if it was a provisional rank badge and not a couple pips, shouldn't that have created performance problems in the bedroom?

Andrew Kim is a miracle baby!
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Old November 24 2013, 11:49 PM   #153
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Re: Lt. Kim

No of course it wouldn't create performance problems. Every single woman he's been with has been his superior so he's quite used to that.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:34 AM   #154
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Re: Lt. Kim

Condoms are a different matter.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:46 AM   #155
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Re: Lt. Kim

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
From the moment he first stepped on board Voyager, Harry was a Senior Staff Officer, a trusted Senior Bridge Officer, and the Head of Department for the Operations Division, AS AN ENSIGN.

Harry was the Voyager counterpart to Miles O'Brien, yet you don't see people whining about 'poor Miles'.

Harry didn't need a higher physical rank because he was already in a position of authority, and it was a mistake to make a joke out of his lowly physical rank because it cheapened his character and role on the ship.
The only time I think about "poor Miles" is in the context of "Poor Miles, being married to Keiko the Shrew, who mocks his choice of food, begrudges him his recreation time with Julian, and doesn't even pronounce his name correctly."

Melakon wrote: View Post
Just watch how Janeway welcomes Harry to the bridge the very first time. "Ensign Kim, this is your station." She seems a bit condescending, or patronizing, or maybe it's just her maternal instinct dealing with a puppy dog. I dunno.
Considering that Harry's mommy contacted Janeway because her little boy had forgotten to pack his clarinet, it's not surprising Janeway might have been a bit condescending to him.

I wonder if Mrs. Kim sewed name tags on all of Harry's other belongings?
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Old November 25 2013, 02:12 AM   #156
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Re: Lt. Kim

Timewalker wrote: View Post
The only time I think about "poor Miles" is in the context of "Poor Miles, being married to Keiko the Shrew, who mocks his choice of food, begrudges him his recreation time with Julian, and doesn't even pronounce his name correctly."
But, you must admit, Keiko is really easy on the eyes.
It forgives many sins ...
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Old November 25 2013, 02:56 AM   #157
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Re: Lt. Kim

Sorry, but Rosalind Chao does absolutely nothing for me.
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Old November 25 2013, 03:12 AM   #158
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Re: Lt. Kim

davidant32 wrote: View Post
Why was Harry Kim never promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade by Janeway while he was in the DQ? Couldn't she have issued a field promotion or something? I know she messed around with Tom Paris' rank a few times. And Picard made Wesley a full Ensign without him even attending the Academy.

It seemed like Kim saved the day quite a few times; I can't imagine it taking more than that to pass the rank of Ensign (esp. since he was Valedictorian of his Starfleet Academy class).

Thoughts?
Saved the day?

I thought he always fucked up?


"Emanations"- Not even a week out of the Academy, his first contact with an alien species and without hesitation he ignores the Prime Directive and lets a pre-warp citizens know exactly who he is and where he's from.

"Prime Factors"- After being told "no" by the Captain, he schemes a way to steal alien technology.

"Heroes & Demons"- First time in the holodeck, gets held hostage by an alien life form.

"The Thaw"- The only crewman afraid of the Clown

"Resolutions" - Showed outright insubordination with his now commanding officer, Tuvok. Weather Tuvok was right or wrong, Harry still showed disrespect for the chain of command.

"The Chute" - almost kills Tom over a metal pipe after being in prison for a few days.

"Future's End"- Exposes 24th century Voyager to 21st century news media.

"Alter Ego" -Goes into a jealous fit of rage over a married Vulcan man talking to his then holographic girlfriend. A Vulcan only has sex every 7 years and would also find no logic in adultery. What was Harry jealous of?

"Favorite Son" - Do I need to explain how dumb Harry is in this one?

"The Killing Game" - the Hirogen know a whipping boy when they see one.

"Timeless" - Due to Harry's stupidity, he crashes the ship and kills everyone inside. You're an Engineer, you created a new piece of technology and you never ran simulations to see if it works until after you built it? You're an Engineer who can't do calculations? For this alone, Harry doesn't deserve a promotion.

"The Disease" - Yet again, Harry is insubordinate with his commanding officer. Not only does he disobey the Captain but medical protocols too. His reprimand here would give Janeway second thoughts about giving a promotion.

"Drive" - Harry again gets into trouble by thinking with his penis again. How many times is it now? What happened to Libby, his fiance?

"Nightingale" - This ep. is another example that Harry isn't ready to step up for a promotion. He's left in charge of the "night watch" on Voyager but when left alone, can't properly utilize his training to do the job.

"Work Force" - With no faith left in Harry to be in command, Chakotay leaves the hologram in charge of the ship in his absence.

When push came to shove, Harry couldn't take charge of the situation. That's a big part of being ready for the position is showing you can handle the task of Lt. Harry showed every time he couldn't.
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Old November 25 2013, 03:28 AM   #159
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Re: Lt. Kim

I liked Rosalind Chao in The O.C. Something about the desk..
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Old November 25 2013, 03:42 AM   #160
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Re: Lt. Kim

teacake wrote: View Post
I liked Rosalind Chao in The O.C. Something about the desk..
I think it's a shame we don't see more of her in shows or movies.
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Old November 25 2013, 04:31 AM   #161
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Re: Lt. Kim

The OC was full of dirty teachers doing unforgivable things to the 30 year olds pretending to be teenagers on desks.

Good times.
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Old November 25 2013, 04:51 AM   #162
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Re: Lt. Kim

Actually I can't recall a single teacher who had her way with a student.. you may be thinking of the delicious Julie Cooper played by Melinda Clarke who was also on Enterprise, in my favorite episode of Firefly (Heart of Gold) and in Nikita. I say all this so everyone can rush out and become Melinda Clarke fans.

Anyway Julie Cooper was doing her daughter's boyfriend who while supposedly a teenager looked more like he was approaching 40 with the aid of very expensive skin cream.
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Old November 25 2013, 05:27 AM   #163
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Re: Lt. Kim

I watched it all couple years ago, and I really wasn't thinking.

I remember nothing except how hilarious it was when Ryan accidentally started dating his adopted grandfathers secret illegitimate daughter.
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Old November 25 2013, 05:38 AM   #164
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Re: Lt. Kim

Harry was generally dull and contributed little to the show. Voyager would've been better off if they'd gotten rid of him instead of Kes (yes, I have a one track mind).
I love Melinda Clarke. She's so good at playing bad girls, but she brings a nuanced complexities to her roles so there always seems to be more to her than the surface. Even if that's not in the script she'll bring it in her performace.
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Old November 25 2013, 05:47 AM   #165
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Re: Lt. Kim

borgboy wrote: View Post
Harry was generally dull and contributed little to the show. Voyager would've been better off if they'd gotten rid of him instead of Kes (yes, I have a one track mind).
I disagree only for the fact that if they kept dropping the ball with Kes during the 3 years she was there, I don't see her staying for the last 4 would have improved her once the focus went to Seven, the Doc & Janeway. If Kes was unused before, she's be non-existant after the soft reboot.
Plus I also think it might raise questions of does Trek still promote diversity if you fire the one Asian actor to keep the White Blonde haired blue eyed girl.
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