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Old November 25 2013, 01:13 AM   #46
2takesfrakes
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

... I see. Anything else?!?!
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Old November 25 2013, 01:14 AM   #47
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

The problem I had with TATV as a series finale was bringing in stars from one of the earlier series as pivotal figures in the episode. TNG didn't bring in Shatner and Nimoy for "All Good Things...", DS9 didn't use anyone from TNG in "What You Leave Behind", and Voyager didn't bring in anyone from DS9 for "Endgame". TNG in Enterprise's final show was a case of the writers more concerned with celebrating their own legacy within the franchise, rather than the show's legacy.

And the "Ladies. . ." business is sexist condescension which should have gone out of style decades ago.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:18 AM   #48
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

WYLB had O'Brien, Keiko and Worf. Endgame had Barclay and Locarna (aka Paris).
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Old November 25 2013, 01:21 AM   #49
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

My big problem with TATV: it can't claim to be a representation of events in the 22nd century. It's an episode in which Riker, effectively, watches TV.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:21 AM   #50
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

O'Brien and Keiko had already been established on DS9 by the time of the finale. Barclay I did forget (and I've tried many times), but his relationship with Voyager had already been established. Paris is not Locarno, despite them looking incredibly identical.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:23 AM   #51
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I disagree. The tradition of ENTERPRISE has been to do things its own way. The Theme Song ... the lack of STAR TREK in the main title for the first couple of seasons ... and so on. These Are the Voyages fits right into that whole motif of doing things differently. And personally? I'm enough of a Jonathan Frakes fan to enjoy seeing him in other series, besides TNG. It was a great idea bringing him and Marina Siritis into the episode and allowing them to be the ones who guide us on this final journey. By bringing their futuristic perspective to the proceedings, it made the episode feel more storied and gave it greater import ...
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Old November 25 2013, 01:23 AM   #52
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

Yeah Barclay is important in the whole last season. He's not brought in as a guest star.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:26 AM   #53
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

There was no guiding on the final journey. It was just a big wank. It wasn't even real, it was someone's holoprogram! We didn't even get the REAL characters! The only real characters in the episode weren't even from Enterprise!
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Old November 25 2013, 01:26 AM   #54
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

Perhaps the irony in my comment is being lost, but my point was that TNG had already built in certain contributions to its direct successors that did not require special guest stars. The fact that it had to be done in this fashion only underlines how out of place Frakes and Sirtis were on Enterprise.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:31 AM   #55
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

Even Jonathan Frakes didn't like it:

http://trekmovie.com/2009/08/07/vega...-singing-more/

The pair did talk seriously about a few things, with Frakes seemingly embarrassed about his role in the "These are the Voyages" finale of Star Trek Enterprise, which he said "stinks."
Coto and Sussman have stated that Demons/Terra Prime are the real Enterprise finale. And they do a good job! Great story, points towards the Federation, ends on earth. Excellent.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:33 AM   #56
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

I suppose I can understand some of your criticism(s), I mean ... I would've much prefered GENERATIONS to be a TNG movie, without The Shat and his self-serving lines, sequences and considerations distracting from the New Guard taking over and bringing the entire franchise forward. I wouldn't have minded Kirk's character being in there, otherewise though, perhaps if he ... if he were recast, some way. Yes, that might've been the right approach, come to think of it. Funny, I never thought of that sooner! Wow ... that would've solved everything. But oh, well. Live and learn, I guess.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:41 AM   #57
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

^How about this: TATV could have been a Trials and Trible-ations style episode, in which the NX-01 crew interfered in the Pegasus mission? It still could have made use of Riker and Troi, and the Enterprise characters would be the focus of the action.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:44 AM   #58
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

With judicious rewriting - and if the episode had all that it needed to succeed, with time and resources - it might even work! Anything that brings Riker and the TNG crew into the fore is worth the investigation into the possibility, at least.
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Old November 25 2013, 01:48 AM   #59
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

All other These are the Voyages issues aside...I enjoyed seeing Riker and Troi again. And I did like how easily Frakes slipped right back into character!
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Old November 25 2013, 02:00 AM   #60
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Re: Favorite/Underrated Episodes of ENT

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
All other These are the Voyages issues aside...I enjoyed seeing Riker and Troi again. And I did like how easily Frakes slipped right back into character!
Exactly! And I know that Frakes has made comment on TATV, but artists are always so self-critical, are they not? Anyway ... are the characters interesting to watch? Do you care about them? Do the words hold? So far, I'm coming up trumps, here, because the answer for all three of those questions is a resounding "yes!". Riker and Troi were very charming, which is exactly what this episode needed.

By the way, I do like other ENTERPRISE episodes. A particular favorite of mine is THE FORGE. When Archer and T'Pol meet the Vulcan who doesn't trust them, that guy is COOL!!! What a pisser he had to die so early on, but he set the tone for quite an enjoyable story ark. Although ... I did hate that CGI sehlat, it looked like shit.
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