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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 23 2013, 09:33 AM   #1
TalkieToaster
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How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

I think B5 and DS9 are both great shows, and I think the "ripoff" allegations are mostly pretty dumb. I was wondering how much JMS was bothered by DS9. I've heard the people behind the two shows had pretty good relations with each other, but I've also heard about JMS saying some kinda douchey things about DS9.
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Old November 23 2013, 10:15 PM   #2
Jan
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Location: ...is insane. --JMS
Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

No disrespect intended, but if you want to know, almost all of JMS' posts are archived at http://jmsnews.com/ so you can go look it up. Some of it may even have been discussed in the sticky thread at the top of this forum.

Most of the rest of the folks here have concluded that what happened over 20 years ago really doesn't matter anymore.
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Old November 23 2013, 10:48 PM   #3
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

I don't recall JMS ever being flat-out angry about it. He put in some good natured jabs ("This isn't some Deep Space franchise, this station is about something!"), and probably wasn't too happy when Robert Foxworth got double-booked on DS9 and B5 at the same time and happened to choose DS9*, but other than that, any 'anger' issues were probably largely fan generated.

*RF chose DS9 because it was a two-parter (Homefront/Paradise Lost). So JMS then killed off General Hague, whom RF had been playing on B5. Don't piss off the show-runner.
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Old November 23 2013, 11:08 PM   #4
BigJake
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

JMS was clear that he thought Paramount had knowingly ripped off the B5 idea but that he decided to live and let live. (I don't think this was "douchey" at all, FWIW.) He makes an extensive comment about it here.
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Old November 23 2013, 11:29 PM   #5
Anwar
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

He felt that Rick Berman and Michael Piller didn't rip him off, but he does think that some Paramount Exec probably used some ideas he remembered from JMS and put them in DS9.
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Old November 23 2013, 11:48 PM   #6
T'Girl
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Jan wrote: View Post
Most of the rest of the folks here have concluded that what happened over 20 years ago really doesn't matter anymore.
Speak for yourself, I and plenty of others are intensely interested in what happen involving Trek in the past.



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Old November 24 2013, 12:16 AM   #7
Jan
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I don't recall JMS ever being flat-out angry about it. He put in some good natured jabs ("This isn't some Deep Space franchise, this station is about something!")...
Though JMS allowed it to stay in the script, it was actually Peter David who wrote that line.

Jan
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Old November 24 2013, 08:26 PM   #8
Mister Spock
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
(Homefront/Paradise Lost). So JMS then killed off General Hague, whom RF had been playing on B5. Don't piss off the show-runner.
There's a nice outtake on one of the Babylon 5 DVD's where the character Major Ryan, played by Bruce McGill, is asked the fate of General Hague and replies with:

"General Hague... is doing Deep Space Nine. It seems he was double-booked by his agent and there was nothing to be done. So you'll have to do with me, sir."
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Old November 24 2013, 08:35 PM   #9
Reverend
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

This again? Oh dear.

Look, it's been said over and over and over that whatever concepts or ideas may or may not have been "borrowed" from JMS's early pitch to Paramount, JMS has never expressed what I'd call "bitterness" about the whole thing. Mildly peeved at the time, perhaps. They were after all in direct competition and he may have made some tongue-in-cheek jabs here and there. But even if there was more too it, it's all water under the bridge, down the valley and out into the ocean.

It seems the only people who care are those who insist on exhuming this zombie of a straw-man argument for reasons I can't even begin to fathom, if indeed I ever cared to try.

Further to what Jan points out regarding Peter David's line; it should be noted for those that don't know (I certainly didn't before I looked it up) that David has written over 40 Star Trek novels over the years (plus 3 B5 ones!) so the idea that there was ever any true animosity here is quite frankly preposterous.

I am however a little curious as to why he was never tapped to write for one of the shows.
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Old November 24 2013, 09:28 PM   #10
JarodRussell
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Reverend wrote: View Post
This again? Oh dear.

Look, it's been said over and over and over
that whatever concepts or ideas may or may not have been "borrowed" from JMS's early pitch to Paramount, JMS has never expressed what I'd call "bitterness" about the whole thing.
You do realize that not everyone has the same knowledge base and that questions like that come up regularly is absolutely natural?
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Old November 24 2013, 09:49 PM   #11
Bad Thoughts
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Let's be clear: JMS wasn't bitter toward Berman, Piller or Taylor. He was bitter toward Paramount, and yes, he did consider legal action.
That we have decided -- for the best interests of all -- for the time
being to take a mature, "let's move forward" approach does not mean that I
have to pretend nothing happened. Or shut my mouth about it. If there is any
(to use your term) winking and nudging going on, it's on the level of "Okay,
YOU (Paramount) know what happened, and *I* know what happened, but let's try
to be grownup about it for now," though I must say that the shapechanging
thing nearly tipped me back over the edge again. If there are no more major
similarities that crop up in the next few weeks or months, with luck we can
continue that way.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:06 PM   #12
Agenda
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Who knows what happened. But considering JMS's conduct regarding Before Watchmen, I'll never feel too sorry for him anyway.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:39 PM   #13
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Mister Spock wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
(Homefront/Paradise Lost). So JMS then killed off General Hague, whom RF had been playing on B5. Don't piss off the show-runner.
There's a nice outtake on one of the Babylon 5 DVD's where the character Major Ryan, played by Bruce McGill, is asked the fate of General Hague and replies with:

"General Hague... is doing Deep Space Nine. It seems he was double-booked by his agent and there was nothing to be done. So you'll have to do with me, sir."
I would take everything Captain Braxton says with a grain of salt IMO...
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Old November 24 2013, 10:58 PM   #14
Jan
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Agenda wrote: View Post
But considering JMS's conduct regarding Before Watchmen, I'll never feel too sorry for him anyway.
You mean this behavior? Where he and the other writers treated the characters created by (but not owned by) Moore with respect after Moore's repeated refusal to do so regardless of invitations by DC? Bottom line, Moore played 'dog in the manger' and had no complaint coming.

Jan
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Old November 24 2013, 11:13 PM   #15
Agenda
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Re: How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Jan wrote: View Post
Agenda wrote: View Post
But considering JMS's conduct regarding Before Watchmen, I'll never feel too sorry for him anyway.
You mean this behavior? Where he and the other writers treated the characters created by (but not owned by) Moore with respect after Moore's repeated refusal to do so regardless of invitations by DC? Bottom line, Moore played 'dog in the manger' and had no complaint coming.

Jan
Justify it all you like if it makes you and your hero feel better.
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