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Old November 24 2013, 05:04 PM   #31
Lance
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

Yup, Star Trek all the way. It's a much more recognized global 'brand'. Doctor Who was always a niche (even in it's home country, even in the "classic era" of the Tom Baker Doctor) that was kind of a cultural phenomenon but never, I'd argue, a global brand. Heck, it was broadcast in loads of commonwealth countries, but it just didn't have the market penetration of a Star Trek.

Granted, the revived Doctor Who series that has been running since 2005 has gone a long way to rectifying that perception. Even in it's home country (especially in it's home country?) Doctor Who was always seen as something of an embarrassment, a well-known, but not well-regarded, programme that was often written off for what it wasn't rather than being praised for what it was. That is, until the 2005 series came along. That's when Doctor Who *really* started to become a global brand to be reckoned with. But that's recent history. Star Trek was way ahead of the game on that score.
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Old November 24 2013, 06:42 PM   #32
Relayer1
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Tom Baker's overrated, IMO. The Jon Pertwee years are when classic Who was at its prime.
Quite. I never had a particular liking for Tom Baker.

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Dr. Who is much more niche. It may be more "popular" now in that group, but that's only because it is current. It has never been mainstream, especially world-wide, and I don't think it ever will.
Rubbish - when the BBC showed Trek it was buried in the weekday tea-time 'kiddie' slot on the relatively unwatched BBC2. Doctor Who is schedule centre, peak family viewing Saturday evening fayre. There is nothing more mainstream.

Lance wrote: View Post
Even in it's home country (especially in it's home country?) Doctor Who was always seen as something of an embarrassment
No. And yes. It was a huge success and pretty cutting edge in its early days. It was only later in its run that it became something of an underfunded afterthought and lost credibility. I should also point out that Trek was viewed as being less than credible T.V. over here too.

Lance wrote: View Post
Yup, Star Trek all the way. It's a much more recognized global 'brand'.
True.

I should also point out that I am way more of a Trek fan, but it doesn't have to be one or the other...
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Old November 24 2013, 06:57 PM   #33
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Rubbish - when the BBC showed Trek it was buried in the weekday tea-time 'kiddie' slot on the relatively unwatched BBC2. Doctor Who is schedule centre, peak family viewing Saturday evening fayre. There is nothing more mainstream.
When I say "mainstream", I meant it as "mainstream for earth", not "mainstream for a tiny country in Europe".

Where Dr. Who needs a special to once in its lifetime air in 94 different countries at the same time, Star Trek, with most of it's television shows (and movies) did more than this weekly.
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Old November 24 2013, 07:17 PM   #34
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

If Doctor Who had been able to combine forces with Gerry Anderson's team (particularly around the Thunderbirds years with Derek Meddings), Who might have become a global phenomenon as early as Star Trek did.
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Old November 24 2013, 07:20 PM   #35
Relayer1
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Rubbish - when the BBC showed Trek it was buried in the weekday tea-time 'kiddie' slot on the relatively unwatched BBC2. Doctor Who is schedule centre, peak family viewing Saturday evening fayre. There is nothing more mainstream.
When I say "mainstream", I meant it as "mainstream for earth", not "mainstream for a tiny country in Europe".
I'd hesitate to call any genre show mainstream ANYWHERE'. Even shows like The X-Files, which makes Who's breakthrough in the UK all the more surprising. Even shows like Trek don't manage that (or come anywhere near it !). Yes, this is the U.K. and not representative of the rest of the world.

I'd say Trek is easily the best known worldwide. I'm not convinced it's 'mainstream' anywhere though.
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Old November 24 2013, 08:32 PM   #36
CorporalClegg
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

In terms of nerd culture, Who is probably more popular and well-liked.

In terms of the size of the IP, Trek wins hands down.
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Old November 24 2013, 08:50 PM   #37
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I'd say Trek is easily the best known worldwide. I'm not convinced it's 'mainstream' anywhere though.
Where do you draw your line for "mainstream"?

In 1994, Trek was a top 10 show, it was covered on Entertainment Tonight and in magazines like TV Guide constantly that year, it was heading to the movies with much anticipation, packed sports stadiums were airing the final episode of TNG, nerds and non-nerds enjoyed the show (different TV landscape, sure, but that can't be faulted, it was what it was), I think most would agree that the word "mainstream" would have little difficulty being applied.

Right now? Maybe not, the movies did well enough, but Dr. Who still has a lot of catching up to do.

A single international event doesn't compare to what Trek did basically every week for years, and then even bigger with movies, and continues to do now with movies. And will most likely come back with a TV series in one shape or form in the not too distant future. While most people in North America (and probably elsewhere) will still have no idea what a Dr. Who is.
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Old November 24 2013, 09:58 PM   #38
Geoff Peterson
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

Back in the 70s, Star Trek was fallow while Who was active with one the the most popular versions of the Doctor. ( also the longest running).

In the 90s Star Trek was at its height when Doctor Who laid fallow. TNG started in 1987 and the original run of Who ended in 1989. Trek had the film series and four TV shows active in Doctor Who's downtime.

Trek dies in 2005 and Who comes back in 2005.

Now both franchises are active and popular. But as history shows... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!!

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Old November 24 2013, 11:44 PM   #39
Greg Cox
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Everybody knows Star Trek, especially in its prime when EVERYBODY, not just us geeky-types, watched. It was mainstream.

Dr. Who is much more niche. It may be more "popular" now in that group, but that's only because it is current. It has never been mainstream, especially world-wide, and I don't think it ever will.

I know of the 50th anniversary episode, but that's only through ads in comics and an article here or there on boards like this (where, in this thread, I just learned there is a documentary and more coming as well). If not for that, I wouldn't know about it and anybody who doesn't live in England and has never seen an episode has zero clue there's anything special coming up.
I don't know. DOCTOR WHO is much more "mainstream" here in America than it used to be. Heck, he's on the cover of TV GUIDE this week, USA TODAY and ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY both covered the big 50th Anniversary hoopla, and the last time I visited a Barnes & Noble (in Wilmington, Delaware) there was tons of WHO merchandise in the aisles.

That's not exactly niche anymore. I think if you're standing in line at a checkout counter at the grocery store and DOCTOR WHO is on a magazine cover right next to the Kardashians and Jennifer Aniston, that's pretty damn mainstream.

Trust me, you don't have to be living in England to hear about Doctor Who these days!
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Old November 24 2013, 11:45 PM   #40
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Rubbish - when the BBC showed Trek it was buried in the weekday tea-time 'kiddie' slot on the relatively unwatched BBC2. Doctor Who is schedule centre, peak family viewing Saturday evening fayre. There is nothing more mainstream.
When I say "mainstream", I meant it as "mainstream for earth", not "mainstream for a tiny country in Europe".

Where Dr. Who needs a special to once in its lifetime air in 94 different countries at the same time, Star Trek, with most of it's television shows (and movies) did more than this weekly.
Whilst the UK might be small in terms of geographic size it has the third largest population in Europe(behind Russia and Germany). So it's hardly small in terms of population.

According to this page DW has been sold to 206 territories world wide

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25009889

No doubt similiar to the number that ST has sold to. Unless you can provide a link that shows a far greater number.
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Old November 24 2013, 11:48 PM   #41
MacLeod
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Everybody knows Star Trek, especially in its prime when EVERYBODY, not just us geeky-types, watched. It was mainstream.

Dr. Who is much more niche. It may be more "popular" now in that group, but that's only because it is current. It has never been mainstream, especially world-wide, and I don't think it ever will.

I know of the 50th anniversary episode, but that's only through ads in comics and an article here or there on boards like this (where, in this thread, I just learned there is a documentary and more coming as well). If not for that, I wouldn't know about it and anybody who doesn't live in England and has never seen an episode has zero clue there's anything special coming up.
Leaving the rest of the world aside, I think the residents of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland might have a thing or to say about that.
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Old November 24 2013, 11:51 PM   #42
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I don't know. DOCTOR WHO is much more "mainstream" here in America than it used to be. Heck, he's on the cover of TV GUIDE this week, USA TODAY and ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY both covered the big 50th Anniversary hoopla, and the last time I visited a Barnes & Noble (in Wilmington, Delaware) there was tons of WHO merchandise in the aisles.

That's not exactly niche anymore. I think if you're standing in line at a checkout counter at the grocery store and DOCTOR WHO is on a magazine cover right next to the Kardashians and Jennifer Aniston, that's pretty damn mainstream.
I agree with what you say and I now sit corrected! I didn't realize that this was being covered as much as it had been!

Congrats, Dr. Who! I now call you mainstream!

But I still think Trek is the better known brand overall. So I don't know which I would ultimately call more popular.
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Old November 25 2013, 12:09 AM   #43
MacLeod
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

There is somewhat of waxing and waning to it. When ST was it's peak in the ninties Doctor was off air (aside from 96). So to a certain degree ST was making the headlines, just as DW is now partly because it is on the air.

Sure production values have changed, and the budget has increased but in many respects today's DW is more or less exactly the same show as it was in 1963.
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Old November 25 2013, 03:55 AM   #44
Lance
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Everybody knows Star Trek, especially in its prime when EVERYBODY, not just us geeky-types, watched. It was mainstream.

Dr. Who is much more niche. It may be more "popular" now in that group, but that's only because it is current. It has never been mainstream, especially world-wide, and I don't think it ever will.

I know of the 50th anniversary episode, but that's only through ads in comics and an article here or there on boards like this (where, in this thread, I just learned there is a documentary and more coming as well). If not for that, I wouldn't know about it and anybody who doesn't live in England and has never seen an episode has zero clue there's anything special coming up.
I don't know. DOCTOR WHO is much more "mainstream" here in America than it used to be. Heck, he's on the cover of TV GUIDE this week, USA TODAY and ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY both covered the big 50th Anniversary hoopla, and the last time I visited a Barnes & Noble (in Wilmington, Delaware) there was tons of WHO merchandise in the aisles.

That's not exactly niche anymore. I think if you're standing in line at a checkout counter at the grocery store and DOCTOR WHO is on a magazine cover right next to the Kardashians and Jennifer Aniston, that's pretty damn mainstream.

Trust me, you don't have to be living in England to hear about Doctor Who these days!
It's certainly come a long way from the PBS days.

I do think the rise of technology has made a difference too. The cross-cultural borders that once existed between media from different countries have arguably become irrelevant in this day and age, now that the internet has become all encompassing, and we live in a 1000+ channel universe.
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Old November 25 2013, 04:34 AM   #45
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Re: More popular worldwide: Trek or Doctor Who?

I have yet to watch an episode of doctor who.
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