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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old November 24 2013, 09:55 AM   #16
Emperor-Tiberius
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

I think its Eleven that accepts him as a Doctor, since Ten and obviously Nine don't remember him being anything but The Warrior who ended Gallifrey with the Moment. Eleven remembers both the original history and the changed one, and accepts the Warrior for what he truly is - a Doctor. A War Doctor, but a Doctor all the same.
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Old November 24 2013, 09:56 AM   #17
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Candlelight wrote: View Post
The issue will be is... who is Capaldi? Do we say 12 (cos there isn't one in the new sequence) or 13 (which he biologically is)?
We say twelve, because he's the one after the eleventh. It's not an issue.
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Old November 24 2013, 09:58 AM   #18
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Candlelight wrote: View Post
The issue will be is... who is Capaldi? Do we say 12 (cos there isn't one in the new sequence) or 13 (which he biologically is)?
The timelord general and his staff sort of answered it towards the end.

"All twelve of them"
"No sir, all thirteen!"

At least for the Time Lords, Capaldi is the 13th.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:02 AM   #19
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
The issue will be is... who is Capaldi? Do we say 12 (cos there isn't one in the new sequence) or 13 (which he biologically is)?
We say twelve, because he's the one after the eleventh. It's not an issue.
It is now!
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Old November 24 2013, 10:04 AM   #20
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Emh wrote: View Post
But isn't that just semantics? At the end of the day, Hurt is the ninth incarnation of the physical being known as The Doctor.
Except that he specifically requested to be regenerated as something other than a Doctor, and the Sisters (using their somehow "elevated Time Lord science") granted him that request.

He might still be the same physical being, but it seems pretty obvious that (at least by Time Lord standards) he had become something slightly different and separate. Otherwise what was the point of the minisode? Just to have the Doctor delude himself into thinking he was becoming something different when he wasn't? I seriously doubt that was Moffat's intention behind the whole thing.

Clearly he wanted to use the Sisters and their magic to make this a very different kind of regeneration.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:08 AM   #21
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

intrinsical wrote: View Post
The timelord general and his staff sort of answered it towards the end.

"All twelve of them"
"No sir, all thirteen!"

At least for the Time Lords, Capaldi is the 13th.
Well only because Hurt identified himself as a Doctor on the viewscreen. With the war going on, I doubt they had much time to quibble over the details.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:11 AM   #22
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Given how they ended the show, Matt is 12 and Capaldi will be 13. http://s677.photobucket.com/user/pan...0b8af.jpg.html
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Old November 24 2013, 10:16 AM   #23
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

intrinsical wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
The issue will be is... who is Capaldi? Do we say 12 (cos there isn't one in the new sequence) or 13 (which he biologically is)?
The timelord general and his staff sort of answered it towards the end.

"All twelve of them"
"No sir, all thirteen!"

At least for the Time Lords, Capaldi is the 13th.
Depending on how you count, there have been either six or fifteen Assassin's Creed games. Yet the latest one is called Assassin's Creed IV. The novel The Three Musketeers tells the adventures of four musketeers. There were four people in Enid Blyton's The Famous Five. Numbering is not always straightforward.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:19 AM   #24
intrinsical
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
intrinsical wrote: View Post
Candlelight wrote: View Post
The issue will be is... who is Capaldi? Do we say 12 (cos there isn't one in the new sequence) or 13 (which he biologically is)?
The timelord general and his staff sort of answered it towards the end.

"All twelve of them"
"No sir, all thirteen!"

At least for the Time Lords, Capaldi is the 13th.
Depending on how you count, there have been either six or fifteen Assassin's Creed games. Yet the latest one is called Assassin's Creed IV. The novel The Three Musketeers tells the adventures of four musketeers. There were four people in Enid Blyton's The Famous Five. Numbering is not always straightforward.
Duhz if counting were easy, we wouldn't be talking about it would we? Sometimes, I don't even know what 1+1 is equal to
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Old November 24 2013, 10:22 AM   #25
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Use zero-based numbering so that Eccleston, Tennant, Smith, and Capaldi can remain the ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth Doctors:

0 - Hartnell
1 - Troughton
2 - Pertwee
3 - Baker
4 - Davison
5 - Baker
6 - McCoy
7 - McGann
8 - Hurt
9 - Eccleston
10 - Tennant
11 - Smith
12 - Capaldi

It worked for Thermodynamics.

Simples.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:36 AM   #26
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

I've got a compromise.

Renumbering the current 9th, 10th and 11th Doctors would only cause confusion to viewers who have not watched Day of The Doctor. It would also be a serious spoiler leak of the 50th anniversary special if we started calling Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. So lets keep Eccelston as 9th, Tennant as 10th and Smith as 11th.

Capaldi however is the 13th Doctor because his regeneration happens after the events of Day of The Doctor.
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Old November 24 2013, 10:51 AM   #27
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Or we could renumber them individually in the order we saw them. My first Doctor was the third, so for me he would be the first, then the fourth would be the second, the fifth would be the third, the seventh would be the fourth, the sixth would be the fifth, the ninth would be the sixth, the seventh would be the seventh (yeah), the second would be the eighth, the first would be the ninth, the tenth would be the tenth (yeah), the eleventh would be the eleventh (yeah), the War Doctor would be the twelfth and the twelfth would be the thirteenth.
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Old November 24 2013, 11:39 AM   #28
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

Candlelight wrote: View Post
Granted we never see who Hurt regenerates into - we assume Eccleston -
Actually we do see him regenerate into Eccleston.






For those who can't handle the fact that Hurt IS the 9th Doctor just count Hartnell-McGann in incarnation order, skip Hurt, and use regeneration order (which is one number lower) for Eccleston onward.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:04 PM   #29
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

In the end who's numbering counts?

Eccleston's Doctor considered himself the 9th, as he'd rejected the war Doctor.
Tennant's Doctor likewise called himself the 10th. Both knew there was another regeneration in between, but refused to call him Doctor.

Smith considered himself the 11th until very shortly before his regeneration when he finally claimed and owned his 9th regeneration as Doctor. So Capaldi's Doctor will consider himself the 13th.

And now that he remembers what happened he'll set out to release Gallifrey, whereupon he'll be rewarded with more regenerations. And the internet will explode again.
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Old November 24 2013, 12:58 PM   #30
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Re: Renumber The Doctors?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
Not only did he redeem himself, he was forgiven by his future incarnations and they called him "Doctor."

That's enough for me to renumber The Doctors. However, I know this will be hotly debated for years to come and there will always be confusion when talking about The Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh, Twelfth, and upcoming Thirteenth Doctors (and all of the future incarnations).
I don't think there will be. Moffat has already stated that it doesn't change anything and that Smith still is the eleventh Doctor, so the point is moot and it's only really confusing for people who want it to be confusing.
With respect to Moffat, the next show runner of DW could disregard that and consider Smith to be the twelth Doctor. So the point is hardly moot.
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