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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: So what did you think?
Brilliant: Geronimo. 188 77.69%
Very Good: Bow Ties are Cool! 38 15.70%
Ok: Come along Ponds. 10 4.13%
Passable: Fish Fingers and Custard. 5 2.07%
Terrible: Who da man? 1 0.41%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 24 2013, 02:04 AM   #151
Gov Kodos
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Well, I would assume that back in the day the TARDIS would at all times maintain a relative connection to some kind of master clock on Gallifrey maybe.
Once The planet is stuck in time stasis that connection is lost and the Doctor couldn't track his age anymore.
I would think there's a chronometer in his screwdriver, measuring off his personal timeline...
All maintained by sexy, who might be vain enough to lie about her age.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:09 AM   #152
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Well, I would assume that back in the day the TARDIS would at all times maintain a relative connection to some kind of master clock on Gallifrey maybe.
Once The planet is stuck in time stasis that connection is lost and the Doctor couldn't track his age anymore.
I would think there's a chronometer in his screwdriver, measuring off his personal timeline...
All maintained by sexy, who might be vain enough to lie about her age.
Remember how annoyed she was about her doors not being opened correctly? I don't think lying about her age is completely out of the question.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:18 AM   #153
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

chardman wrote: View Post
Loved the "Curator". Made me cry.
Me, too. As soon as I heard the first syllable of Tom Baker's lines, I started tearing up.

Christopher wrote: View Post
And there were so many wonderful moments, including a lot of the interactions among Doctors. Hurt got some great zingers. "What are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?" "I hope the ears are less prominent this time." And I loved the bit where he wondered why his future selves were so afraid of acting like grownups, and they looked at him.
Tom Baker's Doctor was concerned about his ears, too. He had a funny scene with Harry Sullivan, where he was looking at himself in a mirror and going on about Harry being a "busy man, and you don't have time to listen to me burbling about my ears."

And some very clever timey-wimey stuff. ("Honestly, I don't know where he gets these things from," Ten says defensively.) I loved the idea of starting a program in one sonic screwdriver and getting its results in a later incarnation (and it's kind of a nice bit of symbolism that the screwdrivers are "regenerations" of the same screwdriver).
Except that the Fifth Doctor's sonic screwdriver was destroyed in the episode "Four to Doomsday." So they're not continuous incarnations of the exact same one unless the Fifth Doctor had a backup somewhere.

Now, the question is: Did the Doctor actually change his own past, or is this the way it happened all along and he just didn't remember? I think it was the latter. After all, the Moment was the source of the temporal crossover, and the Moment was there in the "original" history, so there's no reason why it would've unfolded differently than what we saw. So it hasn't actually changed the Doctor's past, just revealed something he hadn't known about it before. But that revelation is likely to change him, to lift a weight from his conscience. Maybe he won't be so afraid to act like a grownup anymore, and maybe that's why his next incarnation is older.
This is a problem for me, in that the next time I rewatch the Eccleston stories, I'm going to listen to the Doctor telling Rose about the Time War and how horrible it was and that he's the last of his people and the lone Dalek is the last of its people... and feel cheated, because oops, it never actually happened, haha.

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
At the very least, I was hoping he'd sacrifice himself for his future selfs, so that they and his past selves can save Gallifrey effectively while preventing the Daleks (or anyone else) from finding out the truth of Gallifrey's dissapearence. That way, he could still have a redeeming (for his wartime activities) ending. His regeneration in his TARDIS doesn't really make sense.
But he couldn't sacrifice himself (as in die permanently), because in that case, his future selves would never have existed. They're not all separate people; they're the same person. Permanently kill a younger version, and the older versions all cease to exist as well.

Noddy wrote: View Post
And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
I found this episode so confusing, partly because I never saw any of the episodes with Clara and have absolutely no idea what the most recent Matt Smith stories have been about. But I'm so happy that Tom Baker was in this, I don't even care what it means.


All told... I gave it a middling grade. The parts that were good were wonderful, and the parts that were confusing were just plain annoying. And even though I've enjoyed John Hurt's performances ever since I saw him many years ago in I, Claudius, I just don't feel he's right for the Doctor. I really wish they'd had Paul McGann instead.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:22 AM   #154
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Noddy wrote: View Post
Hang on, the story ends with the Doctor radically changing his past. What we see near the end isn't what originally happened; the War Doctor originally used the Moment by himself, and burned Gallifrey. But earlier on, we see that Eleven remembers some of what's going to happen, so it must always have happened....YE GODS, I'M SO F***ING CONFUSED, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!

And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
In a sense the Doctor did use the Moment to end the time war, just not in the manner in which we were led to believe.

He had activated the Moment in order for the consciousness of it to appear. Don't forget the implication was that the Moment judged who could use it or not. So it made sure that The Doctor used it in a manner inkeeping with the personality of The Doctor.

Previously it was just an assumption it was a big red button that obliterated the Dalek fleet and Gallifrey. When in a way it was the Moment using The Doctor to end the Time War.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:25 AM   #155
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

The Doctor's age probably isn't that important to him, anyway. I can relate to that and I'm not a Timelady.

I watched the special on the big screen and in 3D. I loved the two clips before the actual start of the special.

Then it started with the original theme. That was awesome.

And then, Moffat kinda rebooted modern Who, only he didn't. But now that Hurt will remember that he tried to save Gallifrey (but not if he suceeded), Nine/Ten won't be the same guilt ridden person we saw. It also clashes with "The End of Time", specifically with what Ten/Eleven says about the destruction of Gallifrey. This only happens a couple of years (I think 2?) after "The Day of the Doctor" from Ten/Eleven's point-of-view so even if it slipped from Nine's memory he should still remember it. On the other hand, he probably remembers both versions of history.
Also, the communication between the Timelords seems to be lacking, considering the generals didn't know what the High Council was up to even though they held this huge gathering. However, one of the generals mentions that the Council was useless so maybe their plan had already failed and the generals were aware of that.

Anyway, this made me really happy. There's a lot of fiction out there right now that conveys the message that you sometimes have to do evil to do good and I appreciate that this special had the opposite message, that there is an alternative.

I also liked Osgood's little ark, going from hoping the Doctor will save her to saving herself. The scene between her and her Zygon counterpart was nice, too.

I definetely will have to watch it again. I thought it was great even though I didn't have high hopes for it, having not warmed to the Moffat era at all.
It was also great to see my favourite Doctor again, and on the big screen to boot. I felt he gave his Doctor a bit of a darker touch than during his run but I might be misremembering. Then again, that would make sense since this plays out in the span where he's on the run from his fate.

Oh, and extra points for having Hurt chew out the others for holding their screwdrivers as if they were guns (although Ten doing it was anachronistic, this started under Moffat's reign). I hate that.

Chris3123 wrote: View Post
BBC has put a deleted scene up on the official website. I was able to find it on Youtube:

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Old November 24 2013, 02:28 AM   #156
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Noddy wrote: View Post
Hang on, the story ends with the Doctor radically changing his past. What we see near the end isn't what originally happened; the War Doctor originally used the Moment by himself, and burned Gallifrey. But earlier on, we see that Eleven remembers some of what's going to happen, so it must always have happened....YE GODS, I'M SO F***ING CONFUSED, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!

And what's the deal with the Curator looking like an older Fourth Doctor? Is that supposed to mean something?
In a sense the Doctor did use the Moment to end the time war, just not in the manner in which we were led to believe.

He had activated the Moment in order for the consciousness of it to appear. Don't forget the implication was that the Moment judged who could use it or not. So it made sure that The Doctor used it in a manner inkeeping with the personality of The Doctor.

Previously it was just an assumption it was a big red button that obliterated the Dalek fleet and Gallifrey. When in a way it was the Moment using The Doctor to end the Time War.
Basically, everything plays out pretty much the same save for Gallifrey being destroyed. The Doctor used the same trick to cheat his own death in a supposed fixed point at Lake Silencio. Apparently you can't alter a fixed point but you can make a substitution

My only question is are the events of The Time War still time locked?
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Old November 24 2013, 02:35 AM   #157
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Emh wrote: View Post
Also, I have to rewatch the scene again, but it seemed to me we got a glimpse of Eccleston's face during the regeneration, akin to young Hurt in "The Night if the Doctor." But maybe it's just me.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:38 AM   #158
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
Also, I have to rewatch the scene again, but it seemed to me we got a glimpse of Eccleston's face during the regeneration, akin to young Hurt in "The Night if the Doctor." But maybe it's just me.
Was there some reason they couldn't use Christopher Eccleston's regeneration face from "Bad Wolf". It wouldn't have been too difficult to insert.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:40 AM   #159
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

PorthosShadow wrote: View Post
It's going to take me a little while to process this but I do have this to write. It seems as if everyone is saying Rose wasn't our Rose but I beg to differ. Given she had the whole of The Time Vortex within her and that she scattered clues for her self through out time and space it's not all that unlikely that she would have appeared to The War Doctor.
Time vortex or no time vortex, the Moment Interface smiling makes it feel that there is more to it than a sentient Moment being happy, plus some of her remarks are quite uncharacteristic for a Doomsday machine, sentient or not. Besides, she's credited as Rose.

Or they could be the same thing. The Time Lords never figured how the Moment got its sentience, did they? Perhaps now we know.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:40 AM   #160
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

PorthosShadow wrote: View Post
Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
Also, I have to rewatch the scene again, but it seemed to me we got a glimpse of Eccleston's face during the regeneration, akin to young Hurt in "The Night if the Doctor." But maybe it's just me.
Was there some reason they couldn't use Christopher Eccleston's regeneration face from "Bad Wolf". It wouldn't have been too difficult to insert.
They might have to get him to agree to the usage, I guess?
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Old November 24 2013, 02:42 AM   #161
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Except that the Fifth Doctor's sonic screwdriver was destroyed in the episode "Four to Doomsday." So they're not continuous incarnations of the exact same one unless the Fifth Doctor had a backup somewhere.
So? It only had to be continuous from Hurt's Doctor's screwdriver to Smith's Doctor's screwdriver. The War Doctor initiated the calculation, and the Eleventh Doctor's screwdriver finished them. The Fifth Doctor's screwdriver doesn't factor into the matter.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
This is a problem for me, in that the next time I rewatch the Eccleston stories, I'm going to listen to the Doctor telling Rose about the Time War and how horrible it was and that he's the last of his people and the lone Dalek is the last of its people... and feel cheated, because oops, it never actually happened, haha.
Why?
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Old November 24 2013, 02:44 AM   #162
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Redfern wrote: View Post
I feel like an idiot! When we first hear the Curator, I thought Smith would turn to see Capaldi.
It was David Bradley for me.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:53 AM   #163
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Timewalker wrote: View Post
This is a problem for me, in that the next time I rewatch the Eccleston stories, I'm going to listen to the Doctor telling Rose about the Time War and how horrible it was and that he's the last of his people and the lone Dalek is the last of its people... and feel cheated, because oops, it never actually happened, haha.
Didn't you feel cheated back when Daleks suddenly began appearing all over the place despite the Moment had destroyed them all? We saw an awful lot of Daleks for that to be the last one of their people.

At least now we know where they come from.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:55 AM   #164
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
PorthosShadow wrote: View Post
Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Was there some reason they couldn't use Christopher Eccleston's regeneration face from "Bad Wolf". It wouldn't have been too difficult to insert.
They might have to get him to agree to the usage, I guess?
But he already appeared. He even said "for my next magic trick" during the Doctors appearences in the end.

Plus, his regeneration face in The Parting of the Ways isn't him. Its clearly a CGI recreation of his face, since he didn't actually do the close-up for that scene and didn't film the customary hand-over with Tennant.
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Old November 24 2013, 02:56 AM   #165
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Re: The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Except that the Fifth Doctor's sonic screwdriver was destroyed in the episode "Four to Doomsday." So they're not continuous incarnations of the exact same one unless the Fifth Doctor had a backup somewhere.
So? It only had to be continuous from Hurt's Doctor's screwdriver to Smith's Doctor's screwdriver. The War Doctor initiated the calculation, and the Eleventh Doctor's screwdriver finished them. The Fifth Doctor's screwdriver doesn't factor into the matter.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
This is a problem for me, in that the next time I rewatch the Eccleston stories, I'm going to listen to the Doctor telling Rose about the Time War and how horrible it was and that he's the last of his people and the lone Dalek is the last of its people... and feel cheated, because oops, it never actually happened, haha.
Why?
Yep - the fate of Gallifrey had already changed with End of Time having the planet time locked and trying to break free only to be return indicating it wasn' t destroyed.

And with the planet time locked, it was removed from it's time frame and as far as the universe was concerned it was gone for good. As what he believed was the only timelord outside the timelock the doctor believed he was the last.

Then we got the sound of drums.

So day of the doctor didn't invalidate was rose was told. That happened well before now.
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