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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 23 2013, 04:25 PM   #181
J.T.B.
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Thanks! Alright, so, that's five examples outside the pilots, at least, in three first-season episodes (two at the beginning, and one at the end!).
Yeah, thanks Greg!
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Old November 23 2013, 04:53 PM   #182
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

Neat! So we have actual examples of what a trouser version of a TOS-era uniform would look like. Basically the same as the men's uniform but with the wider, lower collar of the miniskirt uniform.
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Old November 23 2013, 05:01 PM   #183
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

It is neat to see a few women in the first season in the trouser uniform. It is a little hard to take some of the women seriously when you can basicly see their underwear.
Even though it's problematic from a feminist pov, I'm still fond of the classic Trek minidress. It's an iconic look, something that nearly everyone will recognize.
Somewhere I have pictures of a couple of male friends who did Trek drag in the mini dress back in the 90s. They did a good job, even getting matching bouffant blonde wigs. Neither were very convincing as women though.
I also met a friend of a friend who went in drag as Uhura for Halloween years later. He was very convincing looking.
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Old November 23 2013, 05:04 PM   #184
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

I wonder if they only had one shirt, and if it's the same shirt in all those pictures. Just speculating further, I wonder, could it have been a test uniform for Rand (back when they were thinking that Rand might be the heroine)?
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Old November 23 2013, 05:07 PM   #185
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

I don't remember seeing more than one woman at a time in the trouser uniform, so it's a good possibility that there was only one shirt. I hadn't thought of that.
It was weird to see the one episode in early season one where Uhura wears the gold dress. She's always lovely, but red is more her color.
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Old November 23 2013, 05:16 PM   #186
J.T.B.
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I wonder if they only had one shirt, and if it's the same shirt in all those pictures. Just speculating further, I wonder, could it have been a test uniform for Rand (back when they were thinking that Rand might be the heroine)?
I'd almost guarantee it was the only one. My hunch on why it was made was that the regular minidress would be... not quite the thing for the elderly woman in "Charlie X."
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Old November 23 2013, 05:26 PM   #187
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I wonder if they only had one shirt, and if it's the same shirt in all those pictures. Just speculating further, I wonder, could it have been a test uniform for Rand (back when they were thinking that Rand might be the heroine)?
I'd almost guarantee it was the only one. My hunch on why it was made was that the regular minidress would be... not quite the thing for the elderly woman in "Charlie X."
True, it wouldn't, would it. But The Man Trap (prod # 6149-06) was filmed before Charlie X (6149-08), I think [ref].
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Old November 23 2013, 05:34 PM   #188
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

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It is neat to see a few women in the first season in the trouser uniform. It is a little hard to take some of the women seriously when you can basicly see their underwear.
Why? Do you take Kirk less seriously when he takes his shirt off? Is a person's intelligence and competence diminished when more of their skin is showing? Taking a person seriously should be based on what's inside them, not how much is covering them. If anyone deserves to be taken less seriously, it's the designer of the uniforms, not the women wearing them.

Besides, it wasn't underwear. The so-called "miniskirt" uniforms were actually more like mini-culottes -- like very short shorts but with flaps added to mimic a skirt.
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Old November 23 2013, 05:35 PM   #189
J.T.B.
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
True, it wouldn't, would it. But The Man Trap (prod # 6149-06) was filmed before Charlie X (6149-08), I think [ref].
Good point. Wardrobe could have already been working on future requirements, I suppose. But it could have just been an early experimental variant that they kept on their racks.
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Old November 23 2013, 05:53 PM   #190
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

Christopher wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post
It is neat to see a few women in the first season in the trouser uniform. It is a little hard to take some of the women seriously when you can basicly see their underwear.
Why? Do you take Kirk less seriously when he takes his shirt off? Is a person's intelligence and competence diminished when more of their skin is showing? Taking a person seriously should be based on what's inside them, not how much is covering them. If anyone deserves to be taken less seriously, it's the designer of the uniforms, not the women wearing them.

Besides, it wasn't underwear. The so-called "miniskirt" uniforms were actually more like mini-culottes -- like very short shorts but with flaps added to mimic a skirt.
I might take Kirk less seriously if he went about his work on the bridge with his shirt off.
I totally get that the clothes don't make the man, not the woman. But the minidress is very cute, I like the design, but it's an unlikely military uniform. Maybe my phrasing came off a little harsher than I meant for it to. I had just watched Dagger of the Mind and Dr. Helen Noel seemed to flash a shorts more than you usually see I think. It didn't help her come off any better than when given the chance to play with Kirk's mind she gave him a false memory of having had sex with her.
The whole bit where we find out Kirk and Noel had nearly hooked up at the Christmas party did make me think about us learning that Kirk slept with Chapel and forgot all about her in Into Darkness.
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Old November 23 2013, 06:11 PM   #191
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

As I stated above the miniskirt has to be seen in context of the times. Today we have a rather different perspective of it then back in the day. Also Areel Shaw in "Court Martial" had a longer version of the skirt which looked perfectly acceptable.

We also cannot escape what we're accustomed to. If you look at any fashion period you will see things that seem bizarre by today's perspective and yet they were considered perfectly normal by all back in their time.
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Old November 23 2013, 06:15 PM   #192
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

As I said, I like the design of the minidress.
But at no point has military design been that attractive, so it is a little bit of a mental leap to make. I don't really mean it to sound so critical so much as an observation.
It's not like I'd have complained if the men had worn little booty shorts instead of pants, but I can pretty much guarantee there'd be a lot more discussion about it if that had been the standard uniform for men.
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Old November 23 2013, 06:22 PM   #193
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

Dear god, please don't give someone an excuse to post a picture of the TNG manskirt...!
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Old November 23 2013, 06:39 PM   #194
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Dear god, please don't give someone an excuse to post a picture of the TNG manskirt...!


Your wish is my command!
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Old November 23 2013, 06:43 PM   #195
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Re: No female starship captains in the 2250s-60s?

^^ Except for the brief appearance of the manskirt and Troi's outfits there really doesn't seem to have been much variety in the contemporary Trek uniforms beyond the established regular outfits. Yes, the basic design changed over time (from early TNG to 3rd season TNG to DS9/VOY and then the latter TNG films) but beyond those there didn't seem to be much variety. Did we ever see any radiation suits, anti-contamination suits or service fatigues? Did we even see any EVA space suits outside of FC?
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