RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,693
Posts: 5,431,067
Members: 24,829
Currently online: 542
Newest member: 713brianp27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 16 2013, 11:10 PM   #451
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
"The Neutral Zone" has Leon Rippy; it's automatically genius.
He's probably the only good part of that episode. Just wanted to throw a party.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:22 PM   #452
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
When the older episodes/films do something off-the-wall? . . . When the Abrams films do it?
Yeah, like Makeshift says, a bad Abramstrek idea doesn't become automatically valid if you can find some almost-as-bad distant half-cousin to it in old Trek. I'm surprised at how often it's necessary to point that out on this forum.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:28 PM   #453
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

IT's not that it becomes a good idea because it happened in past shows (and no, not as a distant half cousin but just as egregious plot fixes). It's that it stops being a bad idea that Abrams uniquely foisted on the franchise because he doesn't respect science fiction or whatever people are currently moaning he failed at.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:32 PM   #454
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

teacake wrote:
It's that it stops being a bad idea that Abrams uniquely foisted on the franchise . . .
Can't say as I much care whether this or that specific trope was "unique" to Abrams or not. It's how they're combined that makes nuTrek so truly... singular. So very much itself. As it were.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
At one point Spock goes blind, but oh wait he has a second set of inner eyelids, so he's okay!
Even as a kid I remember thinking that was a little over-convenient...

Like the Neelix episode when he gets revived by nanoprobes. Totally silly, but it actually delves deeper into how Neelix perceives the afterlife . . .
Which is what makes it truly unforgivable. Forty minutes of Neelix "character development"... *shudder* Those forty minutes were dark times indeed.
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:36 PM   #455
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
When the older episodes/films do something off-the-wall? . . . When the Abrams films do it?
Yeah, like Makeshift says, a bad Abramstrek idea doesn't become automatically valid if you can find some almost-as-bad distant half-cousin to it in old Trek. I'm surprised at how often it's necessary to point that out on this forum.
But is it really a bad idea? Is the idea that with the application of some 23rd Century medical knowledge Khan's blood can be used to bring Kirk back from what should be a fatal exposure to radiation really a bad one?
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:37 PM   #456
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
When the older episodes/films do something off-the-wall? . . . When the Abrams films do it?
Yeah, like Makeshift says, a bad Abramstrek idea doesn't become automatically valid if you can find some almost-as-bad distant half-cousin to it in old Trek. I'm surprised at how often it's necessary to point that out on this forum.
I was being a touch sarcastic...

But if you'd seen some of the things that have been said on this forum over the past four-and-one-half years, you'd likely be joining me on the grumpy, sarcastic side.

We literally had one poster arguing that Into Darkness wasn't Star Trek because it had Spock running. It is a thing of beauty how some fans perceive the other shows in comparison to the Abrams films.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:38 PM   #457
CorporalCaptain
Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Oh shit: What if McCoy's healing pills were the baseline for Khan's healing blood? Prime McCoy could have created magic blood when he contaminated the timeline.
It's a thought, but too bad Khan would have already been born (unless he aged super-fast growing up).
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:38 PM   #458
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post

But is it really a bad idea? Is the idea that with the application of some 23rd Century medical knowledge Khan's blood can be used to bring Kirk back from what should be a fatal exposure to radiation really a bad one?
Is it really any worse than Neelix and his holographic lungs?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:40 PM   #459
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
]At one point Spock goes blind, but oh wait he has a second set of inner eyelids, so he's okay!
Even as a kid I remember thinking that was a little over-convenient...
Spock always seems develop a new "superpower" when needed.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:40 PM   #460
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
When the older episodes/films do something off-the-wall? . . . When the Abrams films do it?
Yeah, like Makeshift says, a bad Abramstrek idea doesn't become automatically valid if you can find some almost-as-bad distant half-cousin to it in old Trek. I'm surprised at how often it's necessary to point that out on this forum.
The point is, and why this stuff gets pointed out, is cause certain people act like Abrams and Co. are going out of their way to piss on the franchise. What's getting missed is that the writing is actually pretty true to tone and style of TOS. I've said in the past: the new movies are "average" Trek films once you strip away the visuals. In terms of story and / or writing, there is nothing standout about the movies. These are strictly formula / paint by numbers, Trek stories. Yet, they're still fun and entertaining films.

Every "sin" the new movies have committed are no worse or no better than the same "sin" when it was done in past incarnations of the franchise.

The minute a complaint starts wit "Star Trek never did [insert complaint]". It's a safe bet that it did at some point in the last four decades. Which is my biggest beef with the new movies: It should have been a wholesale slaughter and reboot fo the franchise. They're actually to loyal to the franchise's past.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post

But is it really a bad idea? Is the idea that with the application of some 23rd Century medical knowledge Khan's blood can be used to bring Kirk back from what should be a fatal exposure to radiation really a bad one?
Is it really any worse than Neelix and his holographic lungs?
Almost forgot about that nonsense. Right up there with replacing Vedek Bareil's brain with a positronic matrix.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Zombie Bots From Mars! |
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:41 PM   #461
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Like the Neelix episode when he gets revived by nanoprobes. Totally silly, but it actually delves deeper into how Neelix perceives the afterlife . . .
Which is what makes it truly unforgivable. Forty minutes of Neelix "character development"... *shudder* Those forty minutes were dark times indeed.
As far as "Serious Neelix" episodes go, I thought it was at least admirable that they went that route, and I usually hate Neelix.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:46 PM   #462
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
When the older episodes/films do something off-the-wall? . . . When the Abrams films do it?
Yeah, like Makeshift says, a bad Abramstrek idea doesn't become automatically valid if you can find some almost-as-bad distant half-cousin to it in old Trek. I'm surprised at how often it's necessary to point that out on this forum.
The point is, and why this stuff gets pointed out, is cause people act like Abrams and Co. are going out of their way to piss on the franchise. What's getting missed is that the writing is actually pretty true to tone and style of TOS. I've said in the past: the new movies are "average" Trek films once you strip away the visuals. In terms of story and / or writing, there is nothing standout about the movies. These are strictly formula / paint by numbers, Trek stories. Yet, they're still fun and entertaining films.

Every "sin" the new movies have committed are no worse or no better than the same "sin" when it was done in past incarnations of the franchise.

The minute a complaint starts wit "Star Trek never did [insert complaint]". It's a safe bet that it did at some point in the last four decades. Which is my biggest beef with the new movie: It should have been a wholesale slaughter and reboot fo the franchise. They're actually to loyal to the franchise's past.
Those kind of complaints have existed as far back as the first films. "THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN", why is it so special now? I just ignore those.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:47 PM   #463
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Almost forgot about that nonsense. Right up there with replacing the Vedek's brain with a positronic matrix.
What about transporters? With a single-hair they were able to completely restore Pulaski to her normal self. Or when they were able to restore Picard from the transporter log.

Star Trek and technological non-sense have gone hand in hand for nearly fifty years now.

Of course then there's the biggest technological cheat... "sleep".
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:51 PM   #464
BigJake
Rear Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
We literally had one poster arguing that Into Darkness wasn't Star Trek because it had Spock running.
Oh, I don't doubt there are some oddball notions out there, going way back. Sometimes one just has to shake one's head and move on.

Nerys Myk wrote:
But is it really a bad idea? Is the idea that with the application of some 23rd Century medical knowledge Khan's blood can be used to bring Kirk back from what should be a fatal exposure to radiation really a bad one?
It depends ultimately on what you're looking for from a Trek story. In narrative terms the "magic blood" trope strikes me as a fantasy or comic book superhero idea. Probably the latter: I don't think the way Lindelof keeps talking about elements of the movies by analogy with superhero mythology is coincidence. It rubs me the wrong way because I don't really come to Trek for straight-up superhero or fantasy stories per se (same reason I never much cared for that TOS episode where they literally encounter a Greek God).
__________________
It's got electrolytes!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16 2013, 11:52 PM   #465
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Almost forgot about that nonsense. Right up there with replacing the Vedek's brain with a positronic matrix.
What about transporters? With a single-hair they were able to completely restore Pulaski to her normal self. Or when they were able to restore Picard from the transporter log.
Better blame TAS for that one: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_..._%28episode%29
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.