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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 15 2013, 06:28 PM   #391
BillJ
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
By some folks over-simplification of the intentions of the writers in STiD, Ripley from the Alien franchise was a useless, one-dimensional character because she wielded weapons and ran about in her underwear.
I'd like to see what Uhura would do if she were put in a situation where she's alone, without help and has only herself to rely on. You know? The kind of situations that shows a character's vulnerability, weakness and potential catastrophic decision making? No, we can't have that with someone like Uhura because we don't want her to appear weak. If you look at Ripley in ALIEN, she does have her weak moments. Even with a flame thrower in hand and a ship that's about to blow up, you can easily tell she's scared out of her mind. She doesn't know where the alien is, but she must keep going if she wants to survive. It's a genuine struggle. For Uhura, the only struggle that she has to overcome is not fretting over Spock.
If they put her in that situation alone, you'd be in here complaining that the scene was done that way because the writers didn't want her showing up the men.

One thing I've noticed, some people will never, ever be happy.
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Old November 15 2013, 06:54 PM   #392
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
STID was the highest rated and reviewed major release of the whole year as of the last time I looked in Sept
It's not anymore. It's still relatively high on user ratings, but is currently at #100 on Rotten Tomatoes for critic ratings, and #19 for user ratings at IMDB. But it doesn't have to be #1 for the writing team to come back.

However, it's clearly not "extremely profitable," otherwise they wouldn't be cutting the budget. Extremely profitable would be something like Gravity since it had half the budget and has already topped STID.
It's the same "budget cut" that Superman Vs. Batman is getting - and frankly, if it's good enough for icons like them it's good enough for Star Trek.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:04 PM   #393
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
By some folks over-simplification of the intentions of the writers in STiD, Ripley from the Alien franchise was a useless, one-dimensional character because she wielded weapons and ran about in her underwear.
I'd like to see what Uhura would do if she were put in a situation where she's alone, without help and has only herself to rely on. You know? The kind of situations that shows a character's vulnerability, weakness and potential catastrophic decision making? No, we can't have that with someone like Uhura because we don't want her to appear weak. If you look at Ripley in ALIEN, she does have her weak moments. Even with a flame thrower in hand and a ship that's about to blow up, you can easily tell she's scared out of her mind. She doesn't know where the alien is, but she must keep going if she wants to survive. It's a genuine struggle. For Uhura, the only struggle that she has to overcome is not fretting over Spock.
That would be fine if the movie was about Uhura as the central character. But she's not (nor will she be). Star Trek is the Kirk and Spock show. As it should be. TNG, DS9, and the rest are ensembles? Great--that's how they were conceived. And that is something usually (not always) better served as a TV series, not a movie.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:08 PM   #394
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Ovation wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
By some folks over-simplification of the intentions of the writers in STiD, Ripley from the Alien franchise was a useless, one-dimensional character because she wielded weapons and ran about in her underwear.
I'd like to see what Uhura would do if she were put in a situation where she's alone, without help and has only herself to rely on. You know? The kind of situations that shows a character's vulnerability, weakness and potential catastrophic decision making? No, we can't have that with someone like Uhura because we don't want her to appear weak. If you look at Ripley in ALIEN, she does have her weak moments. Even with a flame thrower in hand and a ship that's about to blow up, you can easily tell she's scared out of her mind. She doesn't know where the alien is, but she must keep going if she wants to survive. It's a genuine struggle. For Uhura, the only struggle that she has to overcome is not fretting over Spock.
That would be fine if the movie was about Uhura as the central character. But she's not (nor will she be). Star Trek is the Kirk and Spock show. As it should be. TNG, DS9, and the rest are ensembles? Great--that's how they were conceived. And that is something usually (not always) better served as a TV series, not a movie.
TNG was pretty much the Picard, Data and sometimes Worf show. The others got a few scraps tossed their way from time to time.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:10 PM   #395
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
TNG was pretty much the Picard, Data and sometimes Worf show. The others got a few scraps tossed their way from time to time.
Especially once we got to the feature films. Did Crusher or Troi do anything notable at all, in any of them?
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Old November 15 2013, 07:13 PM   #396
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

There were a few Geordi episodes, a few Crusher episodes, etc., but the fact that we recognize them as such proves the rule to which they were the exceptions.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:14 PM   #397
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It's the same "budget cut" that Superman Vs. Batman is getting - and frankly, if it's good enough for icons like them it's good enough for Star Trek.
Uh... what does this even mean?
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Old November 15 2013, 07:16 PM   #398
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
TNG was pretty much the Picard, Data and sometimes Worf show. The others got a few scraps tossed their way from time to time.
Always thought of the main triple-act in TNG being Picard, Riker, Data, with the rest of the ensemble orbiting around them at various distances.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:21 PM   #399
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It's the same "budget cut" that Superman Vs. Batman is getting - and frankly, if it's good enough for icons like them it's good enough for Star Trek.
Uh... what does this even mean?
That a huge franchise crossover like that needs to take a relocation budget cut in order to remain profitable, it's hardly a big deal that the same is happening to Trek.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:39 PM   #400
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Ovation wrote: View Post
That would be fine if the movie was about Uhura as the central character. But she's not (nor will she be). Star Trek is the Kirk and Spock show. As it should be. TNG, DS9, and the rest are ensembles? Great--that's how they were conceived. And that is something usually (not always) better served as a TV series, not a movie.
Oh, the great possibilities of the reboot! Make everything fresh and new and do stuff that hasn't been done before!


And last time I checked, TOS was the Kirk, McCoy and Spock show. Especially the movies.
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Old November 15 2013, 07:43 PM   #401
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Exactly.

Extremely profitable movie, 90% approval rating, much of the 10% non-approval from fundementalist fans not the major audience, most successful outing of a franchise for a studio in many years etc etc

Yeah I think they know what they're doing, this writing team managed in a short time what Berman couldn't live up to in three or four times that span.

I for one want them to stick around.
Profit does not equal quality, or even likeability.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Opus wrote: View Post
By some folks over-simplification of the intentions of the writers in STiD, Ripley from the Alien franchise was a useless, one-dimensional character because she wielded weapons and ran about in her underwear.
I'd like to see what Uhura would do if she were put in a situation where she's alone, without help and has only herself to rely on. You know? The kind of situations that shows a character's vulnerability, weakness and potential catastrophic decision making? No, we can't have that with someone like Uhura because we don't want her to appear weak. If you look at Ripley in ALIEN, she does have her weak moments. Even with a flame thrower in hand and a ship that's about to blow up, you can easily tell she's scared out of her mind. She doesn't know where the alien is, but she must keep going if she wants to survive. It's a genuine struggle. For Uhura, the only struggle that she has to overcome is not fretting over Spock.
If they put her in that situation alone, you'd be in here complaining that the scene was done that way because the writers didn't want her showing up the men.
BS. One thing that struck me about nuUhura's dialogue with the Klingons is that she said they were there to help them. For a species that thrives on ideals of strength and honor, this was pretty much an insult, not a courtesy. I'm not surprised they reacted as they did, and of course nuUhura needed rescuing.

I don't remember any Voyager fans bitching when Janeway, Seven, or B'Elanna were put in situations alone, scared, and having to fight or die. Why the hell would anyone object if nuUhura were put in that kind of situation?
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Old November 15 2013, 07:51 PM   #402
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
If they put her in that situation alone, you'd be in here complaining that the scene was done that way because the writers didn't want her showing up the men.
You're wrong. I'd actually praise the scene for doing something that really hasn't been done in Star Trek before. But given what our trio of writers "think" is good story telling, I don't think they're even interested in going in that direction. Remember the interview with Damon Lindelof regarding how Star Trek Into Darkness was originally going to end?

Damon Lindelof on Vulture wrote:
But there were earlier story iterations where the Klingon Fleet was simultaneously heading for Earth to get retribution, only to be turned around via diplomatic intervention by Uhura. We dropped it pretty early on, as it didn’t feel intimate, cool, or earned.”
Not intimate, cool or earned? Let me get this straight. In order to come up with the best use of her character, our trio came up with two scenarios. One where Uhura is on the bridge facing off an entire Klingon Armada where she puts her unique character skills to the ultimate test in order to save literally EVERYONE, and another situation where she shoots at Khan that only serves to irritate so that Spock can do the rest of the work. And the one scenario they picked that was more "intimate, cool and earned" is the one where she uses a gun and irritates the bad guy...

Absolute rubbish.

Let me try and picture it. The Enterprise is sitting in Earth orbit. It's crippled, charred, pieces of the hull are still ripping off and it's lights are flickering on and off like a Christmas tree. Everyone thinks the worst is over, until they see a huge wave of Klingon battle cruisers ships entering the system. You have an image of Earth on one side, the Klingons on the other and a drifting Enterprise in the middle. Everyone on the bridge goes into their non-stop jargon about what's working and what isn't until Uhura comes in and takes command, ordering someone to hail the Klingons. Nothing. Sulu says that all the Klingon ships are locking weapons onto the Enterprise and the crew can see through the view screen that the Klingon Crusiers' torpedo launchers start to warm up. Now I don't know exactly where this scene would go or what Uhura would say in order to convince the Klingons to accept the Enterprise's hail, but I would certainly say that the person responsible for the deaths on Kronos is the same person who is responsible for the recent attack on Earth, destruction of which the Klingons confirm. This would actually give the destruction of SF a good use instead of just having it happen for the sake of it.

I'm not saying what I just laid out is how it will all work, but there is something there that's far more intimate, more cool and more earned for Uhura's character rather than simply giving her a phaser and shooting a guy. Too bad they couldn't convince themselves to go with that scene like they did with using Khan.

Khan is to the series what The Joker is to ‘Batman’ – that’s when we decided we earned it
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Old November 15 2013, 08:30 PM   #403
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
TNG was pretty much the Picard, Data and sometimes Worf show. The others got a few scraps tossed their way from time to time.
Especially once we got to the feature films. Did Crusher or Troi do anything notable at all, in any of them?
Troi got drunk and Crusher got a free boob job.
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Old November 15 2013, 08:38 PM   #404
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

The Keeper wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
TNG was pretty much the Picard, Data and sometimes Worf show. The others got a few scraps tossed their way from time to time.
Especially once we got to the feature films. Did Crusher or Troi do anything notable at all, in any of them?
Troi got drunk and Crusher got a free boob job.
Crusher forgot all 7 years of her having worked on Geordi's VISOR and much of her medical and Starfleet training to allow the bugged VISOR to be the undoing of the entire Enterprise and a portion of her crew.

Troi...did...fuck it I'm not even going to pretend there's something to write here. But then she was useless the entire 7 year run of TNG, basically self propelled set piece.

Picard and Data arsing about was all the 4 TNG films were about, them were mind numbingly boring and pointless.
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Old November 15 2013, 08:40 PM   #405
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Always thought of the main triple-act in TNG being Picard, Riker, Data
Nah, it was Worf.

Riker was only around when it was free donut day.
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