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Old November 14 2013, 05:41 PM   #16
Melakon
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

There was the same problem with Spock, and the same problem with Data. Seven was just too much fun for the writers to work with, because they could think of more stories around her.
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Old November 14 2013, 05:45 PM   #17
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Infern0 wrote: View Post
Personally I think it was overdone on the show though, and I also feel she had very poor character development in the 4 years she was on the show.

4 years is a long time, and she was still very much the same person at the end of it that she was at the start.

I look at Seven of nine as a child when she was first separated from the collective, in the 4 years between, she didn't "grow up" at all
Hm...I have to disagree with that. She started off pretty reluctant to change and yes she stayed that way for a while. But in episodes like "Drone", "Imperfection", "Child's Play", "Body and Soul", "Unimatrix 0" and "Someone to Watch Over Me", I thought it displayed clearly that she had evolved into something more.

In "Drone", she clearly states that the Borg Collective no longer holds any place in her life, stating (I believe it's in this episode) "Voyager is my collective". She also is visibly sad and upset when One gives himself up (commits a sort of suicide). Those are emotions she would NEVER have experienced while in the Collective.

In episodes like "Child's Play", she shows emotions such as caring, loss, and a sort of maternal feeling for Icheb. Also even though I know some people find the Borg kids annoying, they served a purpose. The purpose was for them to invoke motherly and caring feelings in Seven. She aided in helping them change and adapt. I think in this episode it shows she has changed a lot since taking on the Borg kids somewhat as her own. In this episode in particular, she displays other emotions too besides caring and motherly instincts. She shows a kind of jealousy towards Icheb's parents, reluctance at having him leave. She feels hurt when he decides to stay with his parents, yet then realizes that if it's what is best for Icheb, then she will have to accept it. Then when she further finds out Icheb's parents' true motives, she becomes protective and fights to save him.

"Someone to Watch Over Me" shows Seven of Nine evolving at a somewhat initial point. First of all, it is shown here that (even though it may have been at the Doctor's insistence), she did accept having someone be her teacher in the ways of humanity which shows she has a desire to change, a desire to learn. Even though she fails pretty miserably at it, she does attempt to learn to date, dance, and sing. She feels frustration when it doesn't go as planned, etc. At this point, she is still very calculative and kind of cold, but it is a decent episode showing that she IS a person underneath and can be hurt by how others feel about her and treat her.

Also, as utterly abysmal and horrible as I believe their hook-up to be...she did end up "dating" Chakotay. Now, I personally think that relationship is bogus, was rushed, and completely not believable at all. That said, it did show that her character developed enough to be in a relationship.

Now was she still our cold and sarcastic (also unintentionally funny) Seven? Yes. And I don't think she should have been any other way. But did she change and evolve enough to exist with other humans and even end up enjoying it somewhat? Yes, I believe so.

And yeah like Melakon said, she's sort of the Data of Voyager. Data was still very much Data at the end of TNG and I don't think we would want him any other way. But he also evolved very much as well. But not so much that he lost who he was initially.

To be honest, how could you really compare the Seven you see in "Scorpion" (or in some other early episodes where she clearly has no understanding of humanity)....to the person she is in those episodes such as "Drone" and "Child's Play". I mean to go from someone who completely has no self-actualization, no emotion, and...not even knowing how to EAT for goodness sakes...to someone who actually cries and sheds tears when they feel intense sadness or make jokes (albiet sarcastic and dry, but still jokes) and cook dinner and feel a full range of emotions she had never felt before...I don't think you can really compare THAT person, the person she becomes, to the person-Borg you see in "Scorpion".
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Old November 14 2013, 06:28 PM   #18
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Yes, Seven got a lot of stories dedicated to her in the show's later seasons, but stuff like the video in the OP represent a gross overexaggeration of the effect that focus had on the show itself, and represents a bit of a double standard.

TOS was the 'Kirk, Spock, and McCoy Show', but nobody seems to make a big deal out of that, yet Voyager gets criticized for coming to increasingly rely on and emphasize the triumvirate of Janeway, Seven, and The Doctor in its later seasons.
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Old November 14 2013, 06:31 PM   #19
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Yes, Seven got a lot of stories dedicated to her in the show's later seasons, but stuff like the video in the OP represent a gross overexaggeration of the effect that focus had on the show itself, and represents a bit of a double standard.

TOS was the 'Kirk, Spock, and McCoy Show', but nobody seems to make a big deal out of that, yet Voyager gets criticized for coming to increasingly rely on and emphasize the triumvirate of Janeway, Seven, and The Doctor in its later seasons.
I always thought Voyager had a more distinct tier-thing going on.

I imagine it to be like this:

1st tier: Janeway, Seven, Doctor.
2nd tier: Tuvok, Tom Paris, B'Elanna
Cusp between 2nd and 3rd: Neelix
3rd tier: Harry, Chakotay, Kes
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Old November 14 2013, 06:33 PM   #20
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

The Seven of Nine Show? That would make a great sitcom.

The laugh track could be a babble of Borg voices.
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Old November 14 2013, 06:36 PM   #21
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

I'm of the opinion that, even with Voyager coming to rely on 'triumvirate storytelling', the other characters outside of that triumvirate weren't in any way 'shortchanged', even if it might have seemed that way on the surface to some people (including the actors).
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Old November 15 2013, 07:05 AM   #22
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

I think they should have doubled 7's lines!
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Old November 15 2013, 07:29 AM   #23
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

You must have seen this?

http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/LineCountS4-S7.htm\

Why wasn't Jeri/Seven in Nemesis?

I searched the script, and there's no mention of Seven or Kes.
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Old November 15 2013, 08:17 AM   #24
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

No I hadn't.

What a satisfying amount of lines the Captain has
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Old November 15 2013, 08:35 AM   #25
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Go to the root, and seasons 1 -3 are also there.

I liked looking for the zeroes.

The failing in those lists, is not adding up the numbers of lines for each season, and the total series.

It would be nice to know who the winner is.
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Old November 15 2013, 08:36 AM   #26
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Yeah I was looking around for just that. Apparently they expect us to use a calculator!
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Old November 15 2013, 08:59 AM   #27
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Why wasn't Jeri/Seven in Nemesis?
I think she was busy as a schoolteacher on Boston Public at the time. Never saw the show, but the ads promoting featured this exchange--
Male Student: Can we see your breasts?
Jeri: No.

I'm not sure if I'm remembering the exact phrasing of the question, but the word breasts was in there.
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Old November 15 2013, 09:04 AM   #28
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

She was excellent, and particularly stunning in Boston Public.
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Old November 15 2013, 09:05 AM   #29
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

If it was made on excell, and the formatting didn't get in the way, we might be able to plug it back into excell?
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Old November 15 2013, 09:10 AM   #30
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Re: The Seven of Nine Show

Janeway has 272 lines in Endgame, dramatically more than any other character in any other episode in seasons 4 to 6. That's the only (I think) count over 200.
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