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Old November 14 2013, 03:20 AM   #91
JarodRussell
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Indeed. The issue is that you actually come of as jealous and possessive. The other guy probably doesn't even know or care you exist.
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Old November 14 2013, 03:40 AM   #92
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

*ding*
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Old November 14 2013, 02:52 PM   #93
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Melakon wrote: View Post
The problem I had with the original post was all the Odin stuff made you sound like a lunatic, and then having to sift through all that to find what you really wanted to talk about.
I put that in there mainly because it was completely absurd, I was trying to make the point "my tone isn't completely serious here." But yeah, batshit insanity seems like a logical option as well.

Melakon wrote: View Post
Your description of the situation with the boyfriend made it sound as if you were the jealous and possessive one, not him, because of how you interpreted a photograph. You were even wondering if you should tell the guy to back off, when you hadn't even made a first move toward dating the girl. If the guy had posted the photograph with a caption like "Back off, Kommander," you might have reason to think the picture was meant for you personally, but it sounds more like you're reading more things into it than there really was.
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Indeed. The issue is that you actually come of as jealous and possessive. The other guy probably doesn't even know or care you exist.
Scout101 wrote: View Post
*ding*
Looking back at the OP, I can kind of see why I came across this way. The main reason I thought maybe it was aimed at me is that, in the past, many guys have made a point of pretending that they don't know or care that I exist, and often try to provoke me with this.

An example: Six or seven years ago, I was sitting in a Starbucks with a girl I had had a crush on in high school. She had tracked me down hoping I was still interested in her, which I thought was awesome. About half an hour after we had arrived, this other guy that was interested in her shows up. He moves a chair over and places it with the back toward me, which was really awkward because of how close to her I was sitting. After a few minutes she points out that she's on a date and would prefer to talk to this guy later. He turns around briefly, says "oh, sorry, I didn't see you there." He turns back to her and asks "is this that gay friend you were telling me about?" He then suggests that her and I say goodbye while he gets a coffee and then that her and him should sit and talk more. She suggests that they meet on another day, he gives up and leaves.

I mostly found him to be a minor irritation, but he was clearly trying to provoke me. Questioning my sexuality is pretty high on my list of "things I don't give a shit about," but that isn't true of a lot of men. After he left I commented "well, that was odd." and got on with my evening. I called her two or three days later to set up another date, and she was with this guy at the time. After finding out it was me on the phone, I distinctly heard him say "hang up or I'm going to kill that motherfucker." So, I said I'd call her back later. After I got off the phone I was thinking this guy definitely made an ass out of himself, and he'd go away shortly if I ignored him. What happened instead is that they were together for three years and had a kid together. At the time I was thinking I screwed up somehow, but now I realize that she screwed up by not telling that guy to fuck off.

As for the current situation, if the ex noticed all the flirtatious comments I was making and felt threatened, he probably wouldn't confront me directly. He'd probably do what they guy in the above example and several others have done; make a point of ignoring me at first and subtly trying to provoke me, and when that doesn't work, confront me directly later.

If this is what that guy was doing, it seemed likely he'd become a bigger problem later. At the time, I did not feel a need to confront him. If he became a bigger problem, that might change. What I've tried in the past, ignoring it and hoping the guy will give up, doesn't work very well. So what other options are there? Being an even bigger ass hole seems like a worse option. Walking away from the situation is usually the best option, but it usually not the option I want to take. Dating women that don't attract these kinds of men seems like it should be an option, but I won't know that for sure until I actually date someone that doesn't attract these kinds of men.

As for the current situation, it was probably something else. He hasn't done anything else, and he hasn't come up in conversation. It's possible that they parted kind of suddenly, he just wanted closure, and he posted the pictures to show everyone that they parted on good terms.

Ok, purely hypothetical: Lets say things start getting romantic between this woman and I, and the ex decides to start being a dick. Or it's a different woman and a different ex, and whatever woman it is decides to tolerate this behavior. Do I have other options aside from ignoring it or walking away? Saying something like "if this guy's behavior continues, I'm going to have to stop seeing you" seems like a viable option, but I hate issuing ultimatums.
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Old November 14 2013, 03:11 PM   #94
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
The problem I had with the original post was all the Odin stuff made you sound like a lunatic, and then having to sift through all that to find what you really wanted to talk about.
I put that in there mainly because it was completely absurd, I was trying to make the point "my tone isn't completely serious here." But yeah, batshit insanity seems like a logical option as well.

Melakon wrote: View Post
Your description of the situation with the boyfriend made it sound as if you were the jealous and possessive one, not him, because of how you interpreted a photograph. You were even wondering if you should tell the guy to back off, when you hadn't even made a first move toward dating the girl. If the guy had posted the photograph with a caption like "Back off, Kommander," you might have reason to think the picture was meant for you personally, but it sounds more like you're reading more things into it than there really was.
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Indeed. The issue is that you actually come of as jealous and possessive. The other guy probably doesn't even know or care you exist.
Scout101 wrote: View Post
*ding*
Looking back at the OP, I can kind of see why I came across this way. The main reason I thought maybe it was aimed at me is that, in the past, many guys have made a point of pretending that they don't know or care that I exist, and often try to provoke me with this.
Your example aside, I'm not convinced that these guys pretend to not notice you. It is possible that they actually don't notice you. The guy you started this thread about, for instance, probably has no idea you exist, but it was all about him asserting his dominance in the face of a potential rival.

An example: Six or seven years ago, I was sitting in a Starbucks with a girl I had had a crush on in high school. She had tracked me down hoping I was still interested in her, which I thought was awesome. About half an hour after we had arrived, this other guy that was interested in her shows up. He moves a chair over and places it with the back toward me, which was really awkward because of how close to her I was sitting. After a few minutes she points out that she's on a date and would prefer to talk to this guy later. He turns around briefly, says "oh, sorry, I didn't see you there." He turns back to her and asks "is this that gay friend you were telling me about?" He then suggests that her and I say goodbye while he gets a coffee and then that her and him should sit and talk more. She suggests that they meet on another day, he gives up and leaves.

I mostly found him to be a minor irritation, but he was clearly trying to provoke me. Questioning my sexuality is pretty high on my list of "things I don't give a shit about," but that isn't true of a lot of men. After he left I commented "well, that was odd." and got on with my evening. I called her two or three days later to set up another date, and she was with this guy at the time. After finding out it was me on the phone, I distinctly heard him say "hang up or I'm going to kill that motherfucker." So, I said I'd call her back later. After I got off the phone I was thinking this guy definitely made an ass out of himself, and he'd go away shortly if I ignored him. What happened instead is that they were together for three years and had a kid together. At the time I was thinking I screwed up somehow, but now I realize that she screwed up by not telling that guy to fuck off.
Yes, exactly. You should have figured that out the moment he made those remarks in front of you. A woman who would put up with that shit is not one I'd want to be with.

As for the current situation, if the ex noticed all the flirtatious comments I was making and felt threatened, he probably wouldn't confront me directly. He'd probably do what they guy in the above example and several others have done; make a point of ignoring me at first and subtly trying to provoke me, and when that doesn't work, confront me directly later.
Again, though, you jumped to conclusions based on your past (admittedly pretty bad) experiences. Every experience is different--you can't connect those dots and assume "this guy is out to get me" based on a single photo.

If this is what that guy was doing, it seemed likely he'd become a bigger problem later. At the time, I did not feel a need to confront him. If he became a bigger problem, that might change. What I've tried in the past, ignoring it and hoping the guy will give up, doesn't work very well. So what other options are there? Being an even bigger ass hole seems like a worse option. Walking away from the situation is usually the best option, but it usually not the option I want to take. Dating women that don't attract these kinds of men seems like it should be an option, but I won't know that for sure until I actually date someone that doesn't attract these kinds of men.
Right. Well, it's become clear that you now have a tendency to overreact to the behavior of other men because of bad experiences you had in the past. That's understandable, but I think you should go into each new (potential) relationship with fresh eyes. That doesn't mean you should ignore what you've learned in the past, but don't be so quick to draw conclusions on next to no information just because it's slightly reminiscent of something that happened to you before. Something blatant, like a guy trying to insult your sexuality in front of a woman you're interested in? Sure, that is something to make note of. A guy you don't even know mugging for the camera at an event you didn't go to? That shouldn't even be on the radar, dude.

As for the current situation, it was probably something else. He hasn't done anything else, and he hasn't come up in conversation. It's possible that they parted kind of suddenly, he just wanted closure, and he posted the pictures to show everyone that they parted on good terms.
It's possible you jumped to conclusions based on basically nothing.

Ok, purely hypothetical: Lets say things start getting romantic between this woman and I, and the ex decides to start being a dick. Or it's a different woman and a different ex, and whatever woman it is decides to tolerate this behavior. Do I have other options aside from ignoring it or walking away? Saying something like "if this guy's behavior continues, I'm going to have to stop seeing you" seems like a viable option, but I hate issuing ultimatums.
Yes, you have options. You can talk to her about it. She is the one you're (hypothetically) in a relationship with, not him. As long as you are reasonable, not controlling or manipulative, and you express that this person is interfering with your relationship, she should be willing to do something about it--either talking to the guy or telling him to get out of her life.

That doesn't mean it will work. It obviously depends on the behavior of other people and their willingness to alter it. I would say that if she is unwilling or unable to put a stop to this guy's antics, then yes, it is probably a good idea to walk away.

I think the problem for most of us here has been that you're already trying to figure out how to deal with him when you haven't even asked this girl out. You're not just putting the cart before the horse, you're putting it on another planet.
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Old November 14 2013, 03:55 PM   #95
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Indeed. The issue is that you actually come of as jealous and possessive. The other guy probably doesn't even know or care you exist.
Yep, that was my impression as well and, like I mentioned, it's called projection when what someone sees is actually coming from within themselves.

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Old November 14 2013, 04:10 PM   #96
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
If this is what that guy was doing, it seemed likely he'd become a bigger problem later. At the time, I did not feel a need to confront him. If he became a bigger problem, that might change. What I've tried in the past, ignoring it and hoping the guy will give up, doesn't work very well. So what other options are there? Being an even bigger ass hole seems like a worse option. Walking away from the situation is usually the best option, but it usually not the option I want to take. Dating women that don't attract these kinds of men seems like it should be an option, but I won't know that for sure until I actually date someone that doesn't attract these kinds of men.
The problem is that this women either wasn't really that much into you and/or not really motivated enough to leave this other guy. In this light, any relationship with her was doomed to failure through no fault of your own.

Refraining from acting like an ass was the right choice and it was not the reason that this relationship ended. In other words, you did the right thing and it just wasn't going to work. She wasn't over this other guy and you really had no chance.

The last thing you should take from this is that you need to act aggressively in these situations. If there was anything you could've done differently it would've been better communciation with the girl in question. While you were talking to her in person, rather than just saying "that was odd" you could've asked her more about the other guy, and especially about whether she was still in a relationship with him.

This may well not have changed the way things went but at least you would've had forewarning about what was going to happen!

Ok, purely hypothetical: Lets say things start getting romantic between this woman and I, and the ex decides to start being a dick. Or it's a different woman and a different ex, and whatever woman it is decides to tolerate this behavior. Do I have other options aside from ignoring it or walking away? Saying something like "if this guy's behavior continues, I'm going to have to stop seeing you" seems like a viable option, but I hate issuing ultimatums.
I agree with Robert Maxell, you should go into a new relationship with fresh eyes. Don't expect the worst!

If there is such a guy in the picture, watch her reaction to him. If she doesn't distance him, well that's a bad sign!

And, like I said above, the last thing you should take from the previous situation is that acting like an ass yourself would improve the outcome! Have an honest discussion with her to see what her intentions are.

Will she distance herself from the other guy? If so, you can work with her to help. If not, well, you're in trouble and really acting like an ass will only worsen the situation. At that point, you probably should be looking for a graceful exit!

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Old November 14 2013, 04:48 PM   #97
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I pretty much expect any advice I give around to here to go down a black hole.
What? Posters ignoring any words of wisdom one of our revered Mods is so gracious as to share with us? Naaaah!
(LOL sorry, but you almost asked for this. Feel free to occasionally pull my leg for revenge [preferably the right one - I've broken my left knee recently ])


I think everyone has the highest opinion of themselves. It's only human. What is important in life (and particularly in relationships) is to question, analyze and view with a critical eye not only the rest of the world but also oneself.
Only if we realize our erors we can learn from them and improve. And if we don't realize them it's ok to ask others.
However, we should only ask if we are willing to accept an answer, even if it's an unpleasant one.

The latter is in my humble opinion the root of Kommander's problems, both with the potential GF and with our recommendations. Both are based on not being able to accept an unpleasant situation and to change an apparently disadvantageous behaviour pattern.

And at a second thought, a lack of trust comes into the equation, too, as a third factor or at least a co-factor.
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Old November 14 2013, 06:25 PM   #98
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
As for the current situation, if the ex noticed all the flirtatious comments I was making and felt threatened, he probably wouldn't confront me directly. He'd probably do what they guy in the above example and several others have done; make a point of ignoring me at first and subtly trying to provoke me, and when that doesn't work, confront me directly later.

If this is what that guy was doing, it seemed likely he'd become a bigger problem later. At the time, I did not feel a need to confront him. If he became a bigger problem, that might change.
You're doing it again. All this and more about a guy that apparently you've never met personally, have never even seen in person to observe his behavior, and have never talked to. Yet you're pretending you know how he thinks and acts based on your experiences dealing with other men.
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Old November 14 2013, 09:13 PM   #99
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

AND as you're not dating the girl in question, it's really none of your business. You're not (yet) an important part of that particular story, you barely talk to her. What he's doing or saying has no bearing on anything going on in your life. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't know you exist. And so far, he's got no reason to care.

And in all of those similar stories, it's none of your business. It's the GIRL'S place to take care of the ex, or not. If you had some ex and there was some drama there, some new girl that's barely speaking to you (much less anything else) wouldn't be overly welcomed into making decisions and getting hostile/aggressive with the ex, would she? Especially if you weren't sure you had any particular interest in the new girl, you barely talked, and you hadn't fully worked out the deal with your ex yet? That's essentially what it looks like from the outside.

You've got all this going on in your head, and you're way over-invested compared to the girl. There's a whole story in your head for what's going on, but it's only in your head. Until you get involved with the girl, none of your business. And even then, not really your business unless the guy physically attacks you. It's up to the girl to tell him to get lost, or tolerate him, or ditch you to be with him, but being aggressive and possessive doesn't help your position.
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Old November 14 2013, 11:42 PM   #100
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Your example aside, I'm not convinced that these guys pretend to not notice you. It is possible that they actually don't notice you. The guy you started this thread about, for instance, probably has no idea you exist, but it was all about him asserting his dominance in the face of a potential rival.
I've noticed that trying to get back together with a recent ex is often indicative of possessiveness. There are other reasons for it, but it is a big one. I thought it was possibly aimed at me mostly on instinct. He seems like the type that reads everything she posts, including all the flirty comments I've left and, as far as I know, no one else is leaving flirty comments on her stuff. This is far from conclusive evidence, but seems to be enough to be suspicious.

As for other times, I'm basing it on how many times men have blatantly made a point of ignoring me or subtly confronting me. When I'm talking to someone in person and sitting or standing reasonably close, and then another person moves between us and then positions them self with their back toward me, and then later claims they didn't see me or doesn't acknowledge me at all, it's pretty clear what they were doing. It's pretty easy to notice when someone is talking to someone else that is standing less than two feet away, especially when that person steps between them. As far as online, a few years ago a girl I was involved with posted a picture on MySpace or Facebook or something, and I commented that her eyes looked particularly vibrant. The next comment was from another guy that was interested in her that said: "Nice pic. I hate to be so crass as to compliment your eyes, but they're very pretty." This kind of thing.

Right. Well, it's become clear that you now have a tendency to overreact to the behavior of other men because of bad experiences you had in the past. That's understandable, but I think you should go into each new (potential) relationship with fresh eyes.[/quote]
I agree completely. I try to be optimistic about the future while being mindful of the past. Occasionally I'm a little too mindful of the past, but things usually turn out okay if I catch myself doing it before making too much of an ass out of myself.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
It's possible you jumped to conclusions based on basically nothing.
Basically nothing isn't the same as absolutely nothing, but I see your point. I think part of why I started this thread is because I don't trust my own judgment and needed to be told this.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Yes, you have options. You can talk to her about it. She is the one you're (hypothetically) in a relationship with, not him. As long as you are reasonable, not controlling or manipulative, and you express that this person is interfering with your relationship, she should be willing to do something about it--either talking to the guy or telling him to get out of her life. That doesn't mean it will work. It obviously depends on the behavior of other people and their willingness to alter it. I would say that if she is unwilling or unable to put a stop to this guy's antics, then yes, it is probably a good idea to walk away.
I have a tendency to believe that, when things don't go the way I'd like, that I am completely responsible; that any conflict or unfortunate circumstances involving me happened because I fucked up somehow. There's a lot to why I have this outlook, but simply put: I was raised Catholic. Logically I realize I'm not responsible for everything, but realizing it emotionally is different and much more difficult. This probably has a lot to do with why I reacted badly to the hostile posts.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I think the problem for most of us here has been that you're already trying to figure out how to deal with him when you haven't even asked this girl out. You're not just putting the cart before the horse, you're putting it on another planet.
Yes, but I do not think this is a bad thing. I contemplate worst-case scenarios about pretty much everything. When I leave for school in the morning I think about getting into car accidents or getting mugged, sitting in class I think about another student pulling out a gun and shooting people. If I get pulled over for speeding on my way home I think about the cop planting drugs on me and then demanding a bribe to let me go. Why do I do this? On the rare occasion that something bad does happen, I'm better prepared for it and I tend not to panic. Some of you may remember a thread I made a few years ago in which I witnessed a motorcycle accident, I stopped, and took control of the situation until the police and paramedics arrived. I was able to do that because I idly think about things like that. Everyone else was panicking, whereas I had a basic plan ready to go. Because I worry about not being prepared and try to account of it, there have only been two or three times in my life when I've been in situations where I panicked, and even then it was pretty mild.
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Old November 15 2013, 12:23 AM   #101
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post

An example: Six or seven years ago, I was sitting in a Starbucks with a girl I had had a crush on in high school. She had tracked me down hoping I was still interested in her, which I thought was awesome. About half an hour after we had arrived, this other guy that was interested in her shows up. He moves a chair over and places it with the back toward me, which was really awkward because of how close to her I was sitting. After a few minutes she points out that she's on a date and would prefer to talk to this guy later. He turns around briefly, says "oh, sorry, I didn't see you there." He turns back to her and asks "is this that gay friend you were telling me about?" He then suggests that her and I say goodbye while he gets a coffee and then that her and him should sit and talk more. She suggests that they meet on another day, he gives up and leaves.

I mostly found him to be a minor irritation, but he was clearly trying to provoke me. Questioning my sexuality is pretty high on my list of "things I don't give a shit about," but that isn't true of a lot of men. After he left I commented "well, that was odd." and got on with my evening. I called her two or three days later to set up another date, and she was with this guy at the time. After finding out it was me on the phone, I distinctly heard him say "hang up or I'm going to kill that motherfucker." So, I said I'd call her back later. After I got off the phone I was thinking this guy definitely made an ass out of himself, and he'd go away shortly if I ignored him. What happened instead is that they were together for three years and had a kid together. At the time I was thinking I screwed up somehow, but now I realize that she screwed up by not telling that guy to fuck off.
She didn't "screw up", she made a choice that was not you. You may think this was a bad choice but it was hers to make. If she was still interested in you she would have kept seeing you and not started seeing someone else, it's as simple as that.

One thing that strikes me is you seem to talk about women as though they can be manipulated and tweaked into making relationship choices, as though it's you versus other guys and the women are the chess pieces and you are trying to decide what your next move and counter move with the other guys should be.

You can't actually tweak a situation in such a way that it produces your desired outcome. Women make their own decisions.
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Old November 15 2013, 12:37 AM   #102
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

As strange as it may sound, I don't think the problem is overanalyzing things. It sounds more like you're over rationalizing reasons why you shouldn't take a step toward asking this current girl out.

Honestly, reading your reply to Robert Maxwell began reminding me of Woody Allen's early career as a neurotic standup comic, only his material's better.
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Old November 15 2013, 12:52 AM   #103
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

I also once thought I needed to “help“ the girls I liked. And by that I mean trying to talk them into making decisions that I liked.

But the fact is that all you can do - the only right thing you can do - is telling the truth, and that's it. For example, if her boyfriend threatened you when she wasn't around, just tell her that. And THAT'S IT. Don't scheme, don't persuade, don't lie. Tell her ONCE and move on. Respect her decisions.

In the case you described above, you could have asked her if she really thought that he was the right guy for her. Once. And if she needed help that you'd be around. Again, say that once and then move on. If she agrees with you, that's all you needed to say. If she doesn't agree, then persuasion won't make any difference.


My advice for you would be:
- stop using Facebook and other social media that much
- stop making up these conspiracy stories. Take things for what they are: plain and simple
- learn to tackle things in a direcf fashion: either ask someone out or move on, for example
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Old November 15 2013, 01:49 AM   #104
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Your example aside, I'm not convinced that these guys pretend to not notice you. It is possible that they actually don't notice you. The guy you started this thread about, for instance, probably has no idea you exist, but it was all about him asserting his dominance in the face of a potential rival.
I've noticed that trying to get back together with a recent ex is often indicative of possessiveness. There are other reasons for it, but it is a big one. I thought it was possibly aimed at me mostly on instinct. He seems like the type that reads everything she posts, including all the flirty comments I've left and, as far as I know, no one else is leaving flirty comments on her stuff. This is far from conclusive evidence, but seems to be enough to be suspicious.
Yes, but again: this is not your problem to solve. It only involves you if and when you are in a relationship with this woman and it is affecting that relationship somehow. Unless and until that happens, there is little point wasting brainpower on it.

As for other times, I'm basing it on how many times men have blatantly made a point of ignoring me or subtly confronting me. When I'm talking to someone in person and sitting or standing reasonably close, and then another person moves between us and then positions them self with their back toward me, and then later claims they didn't see me or doesn't acknowledge me at all, it's pretty clear what they were doing. It's pretty easy to notice when someone is talking to someone else that is standing less than two feet away, especially when that person steps between them. As far as online, a few years ago a girl I was involved with posted a picture on MySpace or Facebook or something, and I commented that her eyes looked particularly vibrant. The next comment was from another guy that was interested in her that said: "Nice pic. I hate to be so crass as to compliment your eyes, but they're very pretty." This kind of thing.
I'm seeing two possibilities here:

1. Something about you causes this reaction, and perhaps you should figure out what it is and change it.
2. This isn't really happening the way you think it is, in which case something is flawed in your thinking.

I agree completely. I try to be optimistic about the future while being mindful of the past. Occasionally I'm a little too mindful of the past, but things usually turn out okay if I catch myself doing it before making too much of an ass out of myself.
Given the way you've described your love life in this thread, I am not sure what sort of measure you are using for "turn out okay."

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
It's possible you jumped to conclusions based on basically nothing.
Basically nothing isn't the same as absolutely nothing, but I see your point. I think part of why I started this thread is because I don't trust my own judgment and needed to be told this.
I agree that your judgment needs work. Bouncing it off of people here is fine, but if that's what you're after, don't get so defensive when people respond!

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Yes, you have options. You can talk to her about it. She is the one you're (hypothetically) in a relationship with, not him. As long as you are reasonable, not controlling or manipulative, and you express that this person is interfering with your relationship, she should be willing to do something about it--either talking to the guy or telling him to get out of her life. That doesn't mean it will work. It obviously depends on the behavior of other people and their willingness to alter it. I would say that if she is unwilling or unable to put a stop to this guy's antics, then yes, it is probably a good idea to walk away.
I have a tendency to believe that, when things don't go the way I'd like, that I am completely responsible; that any conflict or unfortunate circumstances involving me happened because I fucked up somehow. There's a lot to why I have this outlook, but simply put: I was raised Catholic. Logically I realize I'm not responsible for everything, but realizing it emotionally is different and much more difficult. This probably has a lot to do with why I reacted badly to the hostile posts.
Okay, but here again you are giving us reasons why you act the way you do. Are they there for us to excuse your behavior and attitude, or are they there so you can justify it to yourself? You seem to have acknowledged that you need to change. How are you going to do it?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I think the problem for most of us here has been that you're already trying to figure out how to deal with him when you haven't even asked this girl out. You're not just putting the cart before the horse, you're putting it on another planet.
Yes, but I do not think this is a bad thing. I contemplate worst-case scenarios about pretty much everything. When I leave for school in the morning I think about getting into car accidents or getting mugged, sitting in class I think about another student pulling out a gun and shooting people. If I get pulled over for speeding on my way home I think about the cop planting drugs on me and then demanding a bribe to let me go. Why do I do this? On the rare occasion that something bad does happen, I'm better prepared for it and I tend not to panic. Some of you may remember a thread I made a few years ago in which I witnessed a motorcycle accident, I stopped, and took control of the situation until the police and paramedics arrived. I was able to do that because I idly think about things like that. Everyone else was panicking, whereas I had a basic plan ready to go. Because I worry about not being prepared and try to account of it, there have only been two or three times in my life when I've been in situations where I panicked, and even then it was pretty mild.
Preparedness is not a bad thing, but the extent to which you obsess over it is. It is entirely possible to be prepared for various emergency situations without fretting about them constantly. I also think it's a bit silly to compare emergency situations like car accidents to how you approach a woman about her ex. There's an order of magnitude (or two) between those scenarios, yet you're spending a lot of time and energy on the less important one.

Do you go to therapy or anything? I'm not asking as a joke. Your attitude sounds quite obsessive/compulsive and it may benefit from professional attention. It's at least worth investigating, if you haven't already. I am not a psychiatrist, after all.

ETA: Also, listen to what teacake said and stop thinking of this as a game in which you have to "beat" another guy to "win" the girl. It's skeevy.
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Old November 15 2013, 03:59 PM   #105
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

teacake wrote: View Post
She didn't "screw up", she made a choice that was not you. You may think this was a bad choice but it was hers to make. If she was still interested in you she would have kept seeing you and not started seeing someone else, it's as simple as that.

One thing that strikes me is you seem to talk about women as though they can be manipulated and tweaked into making relationship choices, as though it's you versus other guys and the women are the chess pieces and you are trying to decide what your next move and counter move with the other guys should be.

You can't actually tweak a situation in such a way that it produces your desired outcome. Women make their own decisions.
I didn't say she screwed up because she dated this other guy instead of me, I say she screwed up because she dated the guy in itself, and because she told me she screwed up. She pretty much hates the guy now, and still has to deal with him because he's the father of her oldest kid.

Had she continued dating me instead of this other guy, that probably would have been screwing up as well. Her and I weren't romantically compatible. I'd like to think it wouldn't have been as big of a screw up, but there's no way to know that because it didn't happen. As it is, she just got married to the guy she started dating after breaking up with the guy she had her first kid with and, while I have not met him yet, he seems like a decent guy and I like him based on what little I know about him. I'm focusing on the men I don't like because of the context of the thread, but most of the women I know that are in relationships are with men and women that I find to be decent people and very likable.

Would you people please stop interpreting everything I say in the worst way possible?

Melakon wrote: View Post
As strange as it may sound, I don't think the problem is overanalyzing things. It sounds more like you're over rationalizing reasons why you shouldn't take a step toward asking this current girl out.
You mean like how at the barest hint that I may be repeating past mistakes and haven't learned anything I make a bigger deal out of it than is reasonable, giving me a reason to hesitate and probably eventually backing off while patting myself on the back for successfully avoiding a mistake instead of trying to date this girl and opening the possibility of actually making the same mistake again? I think this is very likely.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I also once thought I needed to “help“ the girls I liked. And by that I mean trying to talk them into making decisions that I liked.
As did I. Did you miss the part where I said "in the past" and that that implies that I realize now that it was wrong? That being said, I agree with the rest of your post, except for the parts that imply that I don't already realize this.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Yes, but again: this is not your problem to solve. It only involves you if and when you are in a relationship with this woman and it is affecting that relationship somehow. Unless and until that happens, there is little point wasting brainpower on it.
It only involves me if it is causing her stress and I notice that it is causing her stress. But yes, it is not my problem, and I'm not trying to make decisions for her, despite everyone assuming that I am for some reason.


Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I'm seeing two possibilities here:

1. Something about you causes this reaction, and perhaps you should figure out what it is and change it.
2. This isn't really happening the way you think it is, in which case something is flawed in your thinking.
3. They're ass holes and should be dismissed as such. This kind of thing happens more than seems reasonable, but still not very often. I also have had a tendency to give ass holes more attention than is reasonable, so it kind of makes sense.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Do you go to therapy or anything? I'm not asking as a joke.
Good. If you were, I would dismiss anything you have to say. Mental disorders are legitimate medical conditions and making fun of those that have them or seek treatment is just as stupid as making fun of someone for having a heart attack or going to the hospital after having one.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Your attitude sounds quite obsessive/compulsive and it may benefit from professional attention. It's at least worth investigating, if you haven't already. I am not a psychiatrist, after all.
Possibly. Although, I have a very high IQ (I'm not telling anyone what it is). I process information very quickly and am hyper-observant. What looks to be obsessive behavior in me is actually pretty effortless and doesn't cause me much if any undue stress. However, it is up to a psychologist to determine if it constitutes primarily obsessive OCD or if there is another problem.

I am a psychology student, and I do not view therapy negatively. However, I do not have medical insurance and, even if I did, there's a good chance this kind of thing wouldn't be covered because, unfortunately, mental health care is often considered a luxury by the idiots that run things, and I cannot otherwise afford therapy at this time. If I get into the Ph.D. program I want, the medical coverage I get will cover it, and the university I'm transferring to next year may have something available that I can manage. Whether or not OCD is an issue with me, I definitely have issues with depression that need to be treated.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
ETA: Also, listen to what teacake said and stop thinking of this as a game in which you have to "beat" another guy to "win" the girl. It's skeevy.
I think I'm being stereotyped for starting "this type of thread" again. I do not think of it as a game. The closest I have ever come to thinking of it as a game is the perception that everyone else thinks of it as a game and, if I wanted successful relationships, I had to start thinking of it as a game because "that's just the way the world works." I tried to think of it as a game, but that ultimately didn't work because there is no one way the world works, and seeing it as a game is pretty stupid. Some of this may have shown through when I was talking about the past, but it is not part of my current outlook.
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