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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 13 2013, 08:34 PM   #331
Jeyl
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
By that standard every Star Trek movie needs to be seven hours long and every episode three.
One could argue that by trying to justify everything that happens in a movie that doesn't make sense is the same as choosing to ignore the apparent flaws in the actual writing. I realize that some would prefer to go into movies with their brain turned off, and for movies that are made that way it's fine. But when a movie like STID literally gives you details about things and than subsequently shifts gears without any explanation or reason, I'm going to call your writing bad.
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Old November 13 2013, 09:22 PM   #332
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
It's too bad four years wasn't enough for these geniuses.
That kind of works under the assumption they worked on the screenplay for four years (which they didn't since it was only four years between the two films) and that the studio and Abrams accepted the script exactly as they turned it in with no changes.

I don't need to insult anyone involved in the production, either the movie works for me or it doesn't. If it doesn't I go on to something else I enjoy.
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Old November 13 2013, 09:55 PM   #333
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Radom guy found this post from trekmovie:

Roberto Orci . Filmography ( Abrams movies not included)

As writer

Legend of zorro. 26% in rottentomatoes
The island 40%
Transformers 57%
Transformers 2 20%
Cowboy and aliens 57%

As producer

Now you see me 50%
Eagle eye 26%
Ender 60%
And right now, Orci is the main writer producer for ST 2016.

So, a good anniversary trek movie is a fool dream, if trek has not a new producers and writers , and it has not.
===============================================

I can not agree more with this random user. Now that JJ is gone. We all should be worried and like most people have pointed out . A trek film can not survive at the box office with poor ratings. It is not Star Wars or The Hobbit.

Last edited by Cara007; November 13 2013 at 10:28 PM.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:01 PM   #334
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Which has nothing to actually do with the discussion, but then you never intended to have one.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:02 PM   #335
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But he does explain exactly his reasoning for destroying the Enterprise. Does it really take that huge of a leap to think that he was already in contact with Starfleet?
You could make that assumption, but that's all it would be, and having a throwaway line like the one I suggest wouldn't be time consuming and would at least temper the absurdity of the whole affair.

The writing of the film suffers in two areas for me: the transition from John Harrison to Khan and the explanation for the torpedoes is really rough and both could've used more time in the writers' room.
It's too bad four years wasn't enough for these geniuses.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post

Then I guess every Trek writer that employed the same trope is a hack?
Please, just because writers made mistakes in the past doesn't mean I'm gonna give them a pass. At least with Leyton it backfired because people started to see the holes in his scheme. Unless Starfleet was run exclusively by robots, it's hard to believe all of what happened in the climax would have happened without someone getting wise, especially once the Vengeance and Enterprise started falling towards Earth. That should have immediately called for some kind of response.

John Harrison: I wouldn't have made him Khan. But, I don't know what the word from on high was in regards to what and who had to be in the movie storywise.
Lindelof took credit for pushing his "Khan must be used, he's The Joker of the Star Trek franchise", so it's him deserves that credit (blame).
Historically (in terms of the franchise's writing), Starfleet hasn't been the brightest bulbs in the box when it comes their Admirals turning out to be bastards. Nor seeming to care if they are. It always boils down to our hero being the lone voice of reason and dissent and standing up against the desk jockeys.

The trope is the trope for a reason: Cause Trek has a habit of putting the needs of the plot and action over the need for a realistic outcome. Either's it's a problem every time Trek has done it, or it's just a problem this time cause you don't like the writing staff.

At it's worse, STID is a very average, typical, by the numbers Star Trek movie. Its sins not greater or newer that what's come before.

BillJ wrote: View Post
MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
It's too bad four years wasn't enough for these geniuses.
That kind of works under the assumption they worked on the screenplay for four years (which they didn't since it was only four years between the two films) and that the studio and Abrams accepted the script exactly as they turned it in with no changes.

I don't need to insult anyone involved in the production, either the movie works for me or it doesn't. If it doesn't I go on to something else I enjoy.
I'd actually be interested in seeing the screenplay evolution for this one. From 1st to shooting. From about the 3rd act on, it seems like two movies were written, and then blended together. Meaning, it feels like they had a sequel in mind or was developing, and then cored and compressed to make the final act of STID.
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Last edited by SeerSGB; November 13 2013 at 10:15 PM.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:03 PM   #336
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Cara007 wrote: View Post

I can not agree more with this random user. Now that JJ is gone. We all should be worried and like most people have pointed out . A trek film can not survive at the box office with poor ratings. It is not Star Wars or The Hobbit.
What poor ratings? According to Rotten Tomatoes, 89% liked Star Trek 2009 and 90% liked Star Trek Into Darkness.

Everyone acts like Orci and Kurtzman are responsible for every flaw in this film. But if they are responsible for every flaw then they also had a huge hand in its success.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:23 PM   #337
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post

The trope is the trope for a reason: Cause Trek has a habit of putting the needs of the plot and action over the need for a realistic outcome. Either's it's a problem every time Trek has done it, or it's just a problem this time cause you don't like the writing staff.

At it's worse, STID is a very average, typical, by the numbers Star Trek movie. Its sins not greater or newer that what's come before.
But...JarJar and The Binkses

Yea, funny how some folks will tell you you're apologist for stating that or say "just because every ST movie has done that, doesn't excuse Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman doing it, and then go right on droning on and on about stuff every single Trek movie has done, as if Abrams Trek is the first time.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:26 PM   #338
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Cara007 wrote: View Post

I can not agree more with this random user. Now that JJ is gone. We all should be worried and like most people have pointed out . A trek film can not survive at the box office with poor ratings. It is not Star Wars or The Hobbit.
What poor ratings? According to Rotten Tomatoes, 89% liked Star Trek 2009 and 90% liked Star Trek Into Darkness.

Everyone acts like Orci and Kurtzman are responsible for every flaw in this film. But if they are responsible for every flaw then they also had a huge hand in its success.

I always had this feeling in my heart that the main reason why the trek films scored so high with critics was because of JJ Abrams. Now that he is gone, I do think trouble is ahead.

Bob and his friends films have never done well with critics whenever JJ is not the director of their films. I always knew this is my heart and now a trek follower has confirmed my long going suspicions. This is one of the main reasons why I do not want Bob and his friends to return if JJ is not retuning as the director.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:31 PM   #339
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Cara007 wrote: View Post


I always had this feeling in my heart that the main reason why the trek films scored so high with critics was because of JJ Abrams. Now that he is gone, I do think trouble is ahead.
Those weren't critic scores, those were audience scores.

Plus, Abrams will still be involved in the next film as he is already signed to produce and he isn't going to let a shitty Trek film get to the public from his Bad Robot production company.
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Old November 13 2013, 10:34 PM   #340
SeerSGB
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post

The trope is the trope for a reason: Cause Trek has a habit of putting the needs of the plot and action over the need for a realistic outcome. Either's it's a problem every time Trek has done it, or it's just a problem this time cause you don't like the writing staff.

At it's worse, STID is a very average, typical, by the numbers Star Trek movie. Its sins not greater or newer that what's come before.
But...JarJar and The Binkses

Yea, funny how some folks will tell you you're apologist for stating that or say "just because every ST movie has done that, doesn't excuse Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman doing it, and then go right on droning on and on about stuff every single Trek movie has done, as if Abrams Trek is the first time.
My biggest complaint with both of the new movies is that once you strip away the visuals and acting, just get to the brass tacks of the scripts and stories: They're standard issue Trek movies. They're very typical for what Trek movies are. It's a good thing and bad thing.

It's good cause they're staying true to the tone and feel of the franchise: these movies are Star Trek; just Star Trek made by a new generation with their own style and look driven by their pop-culture, their life experiences. In the way that TOS reflected the experiences and culture of the 1960s, the new Star Trek reflects the 21st century.

Bad cause it would be nice for them to say "fuck you" (no pun) and really do a balls to the wall wholesale slaughter and reboot of the franchise.
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Old November 13 2013, 11:07 PM   #341
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Cara007 wrote: View Post
Radom guy found this post from trekmovie:<snip>
If that's a post from TrekMovie, then perhaps you could provide a link to the page on which it appears?
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Old November 13 2013, 11:17 PM   #342
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Then I guess every Trek writer that employed the same trope is a hack?
I don't think as many Trek writers have employed the same trope as you're pretending. Makeshift is correct that it's a bad idea, and I'd certainly be willing to say that's so regardless of who employed it.
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Old November 13 2013, 11:30 PM   #343
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Cara007 wrote: View Post
Radom guy found this post from trekmovie:

Roberto Orci . Filmography ( Abrams movies not included)

As writer

Legend of zorro. 26% in rottentomatoes
The island 40%
Transformers 57%
Transformers 2 20%
Cowboy and aliens 57%

As producer

Now you see me 50%
Eagle eye 26%
Ender 60%
And right now, Orci is the main writer producer for ST 2016.

So, a good anniversary trek movie is a fool dream, if trek has not a new producers and writers , and it has not.
===============================================

I can not agree more with this random user. Now that JJ is gone. We all should be worried and like most people have pointed out . A trek film can not survive at the box office with poor ratings. It is not Star Wars or The Hobbit.
I enjoyed The Island, Transformers, Cowboys and Aliens and Eagle Eye. Bring on Star Trek XIII!
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Old November 13 2013, 11:40 PM   #344
Cara007
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Cara007 wrote: View Post
Radom guy found this post from trekmovie:<snip>
If that's a post from TrekMovie, then perhaps you could provide a link to the page on which it appears?

Thank you. I will. Here is the link:

http://trekmovie.com/2013/11/11/summ...rek-3-tidbits/

His name is Oscar and he made this comment on post 221.

King Daniel the fact that you enjoyed all this films does not mean it will be a good thing for Trek at the box office. Just look at final frontier, Generations and Nemesis. A mixed reviewed trek film kills the film at the box office talk less of a film with very negative reviews.
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Old November 13 2013, 11:41 PM   #345
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I enjoyed The Island, Transformers, Cowboys and Aliens and Eagle Eye.
Hey, the heart wants it wants. I know a guy who swears up and down that Showgirls is a classic, no lie.
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