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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 198 56.25%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 58 16.48%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 39 11.08%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 51 14.49%
I don't know. 6 1.70%
Voters: 352. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 11 2013, 11:24 AM   #661
teacake
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Of? GALACTIC SENATE?!??
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Old November 11 2013, 11:40 AM   #662
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^Of lens flares.
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Old November 11 2013, 09:47 PM   #663
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Care to quote where I said anything even close to that?
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I was a Trek fan from before TNG, and I'm burned out on spin-offs. I just want real Star Trek now -- Kirk, Spock, the Enterprise, and a good story.
Even if it's not the case, it's how your posts come across.

Star Trek is indeed going to be rebooted, whether you like it or not.
I'm fine with a reboot, and I actually wish that the new movies had done that strictly instead of trying to tie it to old Trek. But I think the best place for reboots is likely in movies. I'm not sure how well a TV reboot would do in the current climate, for a variety of reasons.
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Old November 11 2013, 10:54 PM   #664
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I'm not sure how well a TV reboot would do in the current climate, for a variety of reasons.
I'm not sure how well any Trek series would do in the current climate.
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Old November 12 2013, 06:36 PM   #665
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^My vote still goes to a fleet based show.
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Old November 13 2013, 01:58 AM   #666
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I'm fine with a reboot, and I actually wish that the new movies had done that strictly instead of trying to tie it to old Trek.
I completely agree.
BillJ wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I'm not sure how well a TV reboot would do in the current climate, for a variety of reasons.
I'm not sure how well any Trek series would do in the current climate.
Definitely not a live action Kirk and Spock series, but I think an animated series is within the realm of possibility.
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Old November 13 2013, 01:13 PM   #667
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Doctor Who was brought back in 2005 with fresh ideas, a frees perspective and brand new stories. It was also brought back without rebooting a damn thing. The Doctor in the 2005 series was very much the same character as the one from earlier series, and there have been numerous links since. Doctor Who is currently (arguably) one of the most successful shows in the s-f genre.

A reboot is one way of doing things anew, but don't say it's the only way when that's patently false.
When did I say that ?
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Old November 13 2013, 01:58 PM   #668
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

I agree with Captain Jed R.'s point, even though the reboot worked, it doesn't mean that it was the only way of doing things anew.

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Old November 13 2013, 02:25 PM   #669
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Belz... wrote: View Post
Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
Doctor Who was brought back in 2005 with fresh ideas, a frees perspective and brand new stories. It was also brought back without rebooting a damn thing. The Doctor in the 2005 series was very much the same character as the one from earlier series, and there have been numerous links since. Doctor Who is currently (arguably) one of the most successful shows in the s-f genre.

A reboot is one way of doing things anew, but don't say it's the only way when that's patently false.
When did I say that ?
The way your post was worded to my reading was that, to quote said post, "the old series was no longer working": the implication being that because the old series was no longer working, a "reboot" was the only desired or logical outcome. That is, as I said, patently false. They could have rested it for a few years and then brought it back in the Prime universe set seventy years later. It would, depending on talent attached and enthusiasm from those involved, probably have been as successful (in it's own way) as the rebooted variant. Doctor Who's success has proven that one continuity can continue after a break, provided it is given fresh and new ideas to run with.
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Old November 13 2013, 03:04 PM   #670
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

If the goal was to return back to basics to The Adventures of Kirk and Spock, which it was, and which most of the TOS spin-offs tried to do anyway, but without the benefit of having Kirk and Spock in the main cast, then setting things 70 or even 700 years later in the Prime Universe was not an option.
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Old November 13 2013, 03:35 PM   #671
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

My understanding (I'm an occasional viewer) is that the constant time travels in the new Doctor Who render the events of most episodes and continuity meaningless anyway, leading even to different versions of the same events happening over the past 50 years. The Doctor supposedly lived through all of it - just like the elder Spock lived through all of Trek.
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Old November 13 2013, 04:49 PM   #672
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
My understanding (I'm an occasional viewer) is that the constant time travels in the new Doctor Who render the events of most episodes and continuity meaningless anyway, leading even to different versions of the same events happening over the past 50 years. The Doctor supposedly lived through all of it - just like the elder Spock lived through all of Trek.
There's a surprising amount of continuity despite the references to "time can be rewritten". I'm probably as big a fan of Who as I am Trek, and simple things from sound effects, visual elements, the inclusion in the new series of UNIT and references to older Doctors, older props, frequent script references to older stories, some that are nearly fifty years old now (including a reference to a known exodus of Earth by humanity in a particular century from a story from 1975 in a more recent story in 2010), the daughter of a recurring character now appearing in at least two stories, and the Doctor himself of course.

Don't try to argue that canon in Who is meaningless - it isn't, and that renders your point about Spock living through two universes moot as the Doctor is in one universe (occasional hops to parallel realities aside) that (give or take) has a consistent history (the occasional three destructions of Atlantis in the 60's/70's aside) whereas Spock was in one universe with it's own history, and is now in a totally different universe with a totally different history. Not the same thing.

Doctor Who in 2005 did what The Next Generation did in the 80's - taking the series further, leaving a gap but having it resolutely in the same continuity - except it did so with far more style and panache. It is a continuation of the same story, the story of the Doctor. New Star Trek doesn't do that. New Star Trek is a reboot, with a different story, different continuity. It was perhaps the "safest" option to bring Trek back, and undoubtedly it's been incredibly successful for those involved, but just like TNG and just like Doctor Who, they could have gone forward instead of restarting.
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Old November 13 2013, 05:05 PM   #673
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Captain Jed R. wrote: View Post
There's a surprising amount of continuity despite the references to "time can be rewritten". I'm probably as big a fan of Who as I am Trek, and simple things from sound effects, visual elements, the inclusion in the new series of UNIT and references to older Doctors, older props, frequent script references to older stories, some that are nearly fifty years old now (including a reference to a known exodus of Earth by humanity in a particular century from a story from 1975 in a more recent story in 2010), the daughter of a recurring character now appearing in at least two stories, and the Doctor himself of course.
As there is a huge amount of continuity with the old in the new Trek movies, countless references both visual and in-story.
Don't try to argue that canon in Who is meaningless - it isn't, and that renders your point about Spock living through two universes moot as the Doctor is in one universe (occasional hops to parallel realities aside) that (give or take) has a consistent history (the occasional three destructions of Atlantis in the 60's/70's aside) whereas Spock was in one universe with it's own history, and is now in a totally different universe with a totally different history. Not the same thing.
Surely the alternate reality Spock is in now is no different to the alternate realities the Doctor destroyed Atlantis in those three times? I presume those histories branched off as a result of time travels by the Doctor and others, just as the one Spock is in branched from 2233 when Nero arrived?
Doctor Who in 2005 did what The Next Generation did in the 80's - taking the series further, leaving a gap but having it resolutely in the same continuity - except it did so with far more style and panache. It is a continuation of the same story, the story of the Doctor. New Star Trek doesn't do that. New Star Trek is a reboot, with a different story, different continuity. It was perhaps the "safest" option to bring Trek back, and undoubtedly it's been incredibly successful for those involved, but just like TNG and just like Doctor Who, they could have gone forward instead of restarting.
The Doctor does back and fights the Daleks in a timeline where many of his earlier battles with them may or may not have happened. Kirk fights the Klingons in a timeline where his earlier battles didn't. Where's the difference? You say Trek is a reboot, yet it's explicitly tied into the original continuity by time travel.
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Old November 13 2013, 05:32 PM   #674
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
As there is a huge amount of continuity with the old in the new Trek movies, countless references both visual and in-story.
I wouldn't call continuity and referencing to previous stories (that all have different beginnings) the same thing.
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Old November 13 2013, 05:53 PM   #675
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
As there is a huge amount of continuity with the old in the new Trek movies, countless references both visual and in-story.
Visually, the Enterprise has the TMP saucer on a vague recreation of it's basic shape, ships look vaguely Starfleet in arrangement (albeit far too big) and there's similarities in a couple of the uniform variations. Story wise, there's wholesale ripping off of scenes, but it isn't part of the same continuity. Doctor Who has visual elements comparatively - if not totally - unchanged, and has story elements that tie in over fifty years. No comparison.

Surely the alternate reality Spock is in now is no different to the alternate realities the Doctor destroyed Atlantis in those three times? I presume those histories branched off as a result of time travels by the Doctor and others, just as the one Spock is in branched from 2233 when Nero arrived?
No. Those histories did not branch off.

Simple reason? Because it was the 1970's, and they didn't give a shit about continuity because the stuff was hardly ever repeated on BBC telly and there was no such thing as home video. But they are, in fact, almost certainly meant to be in the same universe. God knows quite how, but there was never any mention of "history changing", so no, not alternate realities. One reality. One continuity. Completely different from the rebooted Star Trek in that respect, where there is an explicitly separate reality created by Nero going back in time.

The Doctor does back and fights the Daleks in a timeline where many of his earlier battles with them may or may not have happened. Kirk fights the Klingons in a timeline where his earlier battles didn't. Where's the difference? You say Trek is a reboot, yet it's explicitly tied into the original continuity by time travel.
No. The Doctor's life is in one continuity: his adventures happen in one continuity. Kirk can never reference events of stories that will never happen to him. The Klingons he fights will never reference events that will never happen to them. In the Doctor's universe, if he goes back, then forward again, those events will be the same, in the same continuity. And don't even get me started on the theory of Gallifrey Mean Time...

tl:dr
Doctor Who is in the same continuity, which the Doctor goes to different points to via time travel. It remains the same continuity.

Star Trek is in a new continuity, created by one act of random time travel, that can never return to the original continuity and has instead created it's own.

Anyway, why are we even discussing Doctor Who? This has nothing to do with my point when I posted earlier in this thread, which was simply that Doctor Who returned in 2005 with a continuation not a reboot, and did so successfully, proving that it can in fact be done. This discussion has nothing to do with that point. Doctor Who's continuity remains constant with the older series, and is continually advancing forward from the previous point in the story. Apart from Spock Prime, nothing in the new universe is a continuation of "old" Trek (apart from Enterprise), and is now advancing down a totally different road from the point of divergence, and can never ever go back to the other road by virtue of so much having altered. Different beasts. Simple as.
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