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Old November 11 2013, 04:41 AM   #571
Kestrel
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Carol was right: anyone infected to that degree dies and reanimates.
Carol: took it on herself to go ahead and kill people because she decided it's better to just give up.

Hershel, Glenn, and Sasha: fought and fought and exhausted themselves to save as many lives as they could - and put down the dead, but only once they lost their fight with the disease.

What Carol and Hershel did are not the same.
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Old November 11 2013, 04:48 AM   #572
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Rick's misguided, sympathetic stand was all for nothing.
I got to say I don't see it that way. Carol did what she did to prevent contamination from spreading, which was ill conceived, because it spread anyway. A wise person would know that was happening. The point of survival in a group should be to give everyone every chance to survive that you can. Would Karen have survived? Not likely, but that's not when you put a person down, & it wasn't why Carol did it

You don't leave people for dead or put them down just because things aren't going your way. That's what... The Governor does. What Rick did was a matter of principle. In this kind of survival mode, you're only one corner away from a situation going badly. You can have no unity if you know that a unit member is one bad turn away from ending you for whatever greater good they perceive. That was the problem with Shane & to a much subtler degree, it was the problem with Carol
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Old November 11 2013, 05:12 AM   #573
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Carol had to go because she wasnt able to interact with a group anymore. It's like how Michonne was--she had to relearn how to be with people. Carol lets go of the group and distances herself (hopefully only temporarily) and Michonne lets go of her vengeance and is smiling--they play off the same theme. And Carol didn't really argue too much, she knew she didn't belongs anymore--at least not for now.

Now, with the Governor back in the picture...?

The walkers were fed by someone inside the prison--nothing has shown the Governor has been inside during this time. Though he may have been leading the walkers there.

I think Rick's estimation of Carl just went up, and he seemed to like that he and Carl could work together.
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Old November 11 2013, 05:21 AM   #574
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Great episode --- glad that Hershel got the focus...but what happened with Darryl's group, that it took them so long to get back?

AGree with those that say what Hershel did was very different than CArol.

I totally understand Rick's procrastination with Darryl.

And...the Governor!!!

Can't wait till next week!!!
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Old November 11 2013, 05:24 AM   #575
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post

I guess The Governor is the one feeding rats to the Walkers at the fence.
So you're saying he snuck in to feed the walkers from the other side of the fence? Nah, I still think it was the little girl. Especially after tonight's episode.
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Old November 11 2013, 05:29 AM   #576
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Kestrel wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Carol was right: anyone infected to that degree dies and reanimates.
Carol: took it on herself to go ahead and kill people because she decided it's better to just give up.
What did Hershel do as he passed one cell after another with increasingly sick people? Caleb balked at Hershel's conern, as he realized what was happening. Did Hershel think he was going to save them all--with no clue about the whereabouts of Daryl's party?

What did he tell Rick they should do with the bodies? Burn them--a logical solution Carol reached before anyone else.

There's no time to play games with the inevitable.
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Old November 11 2013, 05:44 AM   #577
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Burn the dead bodies. Not kill the living. Quit conflating shit.
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Old November 11 2013, 06:06 AM   #578
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

^ Yarp.
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Old November 11 2013, 07:06 AM   #579
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Best episode of the season... with the Governor in the wings...!
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Old November 11 2013, 07:25 AM   #580
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

The episode was like a tense bow string. It was a continuous pulse in that string, stretching ever so tight. Hell, I knew they'd delay the inevitable Rick/Daryl/Carol reveal. TPTB weren't going to pull that trigger right away. Gotta ratchet up the interpersonal tension.
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Old November 11 2013, 08:11 AM   #581
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I really liked the music in this ep. Herschel's best feature in a long time or ever. As soon as I saw that gunshot on the beam, I kept waiting for Rick to scout the perimeter to find a bootprint or something. In this case, I think the idea of the gov may have been scarier than the actual cameo - but I'll take it! Hoo boy! That glimpse of next week's ep reminded me of The Stand's Randall Flagg.

Rick almost bought it twice in the ep - saved by others. The little ones are growing up. Or Rick's losing his edge. Or both?

Carol was losing the thread. Still damned cruel to exile her. I guess she left him no choice. That would be effin' scary - to start out alone again. How could you even sleep?

Great episode.
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Old November 11 2013, 11:14 AM   #582
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post

I guess The Governor is the one feeding rats to the Walkers at the fence.
So you're saying he snuck in to feed the walkers from the other side of the fence? Nah, I still think it was the little girl. Especially after tonight's episode.
Yeah, I forgot that the Walkers were being fed from INSIDE the prison. I still don't think it was the girl and more likely a mole.

Also of note, the prison is very much less secure with the loss of part of the outer fence and part of the dog-run.

TREK_GOD, this is getting tedious, your anti-Rick hard-on. There's a vast, vast, VAST difference between Carol euthanizing the still living (presumably without their permission) and the group killing the dead before they turn. Burning the bodies may be SOP for Walkers or just the dead in general if they have no surviving loved ones/family/friends. Hell, Karen was burned and she STILL got a grave since they apparently cannot generate the heat needed to completely reduce a body to ash.

If Carol has said that Karen and... Dave? Had died and THEN she killed them before they turned that'd be different, but she never said that, and she likely would have said something period. She clearly killed them and then burned the evidence in an ill-conceived plan to stop the spread the disease which was already in the open and had likely already infected people as anyone who understands how diseases spread would know.

In this episode we see characters (mostly the Red-Shirts, or I guess in TWD the gray-shirts) in the advanced stages of the worst parts of the disease coughing, hemorrhaging from the eyes and mouth/nose and people weren't put-down until they had actually DIED. And even then, seemingly, after revival couldn't be accomplished (as Glenn tried CPR on the guy he was watching died.) Carol said, "fuck these guys!" and killed them. That's fucking COLD.

Back to the episode...

I really liked the focus on Hershel in this episode and seeing some shreds of his humanity and religion still being there. It makes sense he'd be reluctant to kill people who died from the disease (he's likely come back from the darker place he was at the end of Season 2, and there's a difference between killing the Walkers in the herd that invaded the farm and preemptively "killing" people he knew and who had just died.) It also seemed, to some degree, with The Bible he was giving them Last Rights, I also wonder if maybe this episode didn't make HIM lose hope a bit as he turned The Bible away at the end.

It does seem Hershel largely agrees with what Rick did re:Carol, but this makes sense as Hershel likely still trusts Rick and sees him as a de-facto leader, even if he's adjudicated. Though I doubt Daryl will be as understanding.

As for how long it took the group to get back, IIRC the veterinary school was about 70 miles or more away which would be an hour's drive, ideally. But that's on an open road on the most direct route.

Considering the direct route was blocked by the massive Walker horde they encountered two episodes ago, they were in a shitty van and not the Charger they started with and the roads haven't been maintained in almost two years, nor are they 100% clear the clinic group likely had to take another route to get back to the prison, one that took much longer to take. We also don't know entirely where the overlap or time-displacement is between the two episodes and Rick/Carol vs. the clinic group.

The Talking Dead was really good this week, as expected Adam Savage made for a great guest.
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Old November 11 2013, 12:17 PM   #583
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Yeah, Adam Savage. I'd be all into whatever weapon he could make out of scraps. lol
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Old November 11 2013, 01:39 PM   #584
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
Burn the dead bodies. Not kill the living. Quit conflating shit.
...and this goes out to Trekker4747, too:

They were dying. Carol was the witness--Rick was not. He did not know what he was talking about. Carol protected the group while Rick was playing farmer.

In Caleb's case, Hershel was able to see what happens for himself--and why Caleb rejected his attempt to help him. There is no help at that point and death/reanimation cannot be avoided.

Again, Karen and the other guy were already sick, and were not going to improve as they were among the first to show symptoms (after the nerd), so the disease was well on its way to ending their lives. Any objective mind knows they were not going to survive the time Daryl's party was away.

So, what we have is Rick--based on his fantasy of Carol's action (notice he imagines Karen was sleeping--not hacking/succumbing--her real condition) makes a "Ricktatorship" decision--not a word with anyone else.

You must realize Carol will return to save his ass--or be the instrument for a new level of pain.

If it happens, I cannot say he did not ask for it.
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Old November 11 2013, 01:51 PM   #585
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
also seemed, to some degree, with The Bible he was giving them Last Rights, I also wonder if maybe this episode didn't make HIM lose hope a bit as he turned The Bible away at the end.
He's not losing hope--as in his faith; it appears he's was a bit overcome by the very thing he explained to Rick: they're always being tested. Hershel is still a man of faith, but being the only healthy adult (with any sort of medical knowledge) in the cell block, and finally watching the disease take its course/walker attack, he was hit by everything at once, knowing the Woodbury refugees in that cell were hopeless cases.

Having fought and survived this latest outbreak, he feels empowered (see: the exchange with Daryl), but I do not think he's given up on faith/the Bible as his guide to living in that world.
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