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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 11 2013, 03:15 AM   #196
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
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Old November 11 2013, 03:34 AM   #197
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post


McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.

Not every little thing needs a piece of dialog to fully "explain" it. The viewer should be able to connect the dots on their own.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
We also have Nomad raising Scotty from the dead in "The Changeling".
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Last edited by Santa Kang; November 11 2013 at 03:45 AM.
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Old November 11 2013, 03:48 AM   #198
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post


McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.

Not every little thing needs a piece of dialog to fully "explain" it. The viewer should be able to connect the dots on their own.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
We also have Nomad raising Scotty from the dead in "The Changeling".
Yep. But the specific point was wanting an example of magic blood in Trek, and here we have exactly that.
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Old November 11 2013, 03:51 AM   #199
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post


McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.

Not every little thing needs a piece of dialog to fully "explain" it. The viewer should be able to connect the dots on their own.
Spock didn't have mental powers until they were retconned onto him a few episodes into the series - leading one to wonder why he never attempted a neck pinch on Garry Mitchell, or why he, a strong telepath, wasn't affected by passage into the barrier at the edge of the galaxy.

Conversely, the addition of Khan's "super blood" has no similar retroactive impact on Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, and actually ties in neatly to Arik Soong's comments to Jonathan Archer about how the repressed genetic engineering technology could have saved Archer's father during the ENT Augment trilogy, and how the genetically engineered are free of illness and live 3 times longer than humans.
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Old November 11 2013, 09:56 AM   #200
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Crusher revived Yareena, who was dead from poison, in 'Code of Honor'.
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Old November 11 2013, 10:27 AM   #201
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!

Naturally, there are NO actors on the whole damn planet who they could have found to play the part of Khan Noonian Singh without having to mumble something like, "Well, y'see I was adopted..."

Conversely, the addition of Khan's "super blood" has no similar retroactive impact on Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, and actually ties in neatly to Arik Soong's comments to Jonathan Archer about how the repressed genetic engineering technology could have saved Archer's father during the ENT Augment trilogy, and how the genetically engineered are free of illness and live 3 times longer than humans.
I never saw this part of Enterprise.
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Old November 11 2013, 10:28 AM   #202
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Except that is rather an instance of defending a nuTrek trope by comparing it to an extremely terrible idea from a fairly terrible episode on the downslope of the Berman-era franchise, innit. How compelling it is to say something is not a terrible idea because it looks sort of like a terrible idea they had on Voyager... on a Voyager *Neelix episode* no less... meh.

Borg nanoprobe MagicBlood that revives people who are only Mostly-Dead instead of All-Dead (in which case all you can do is go through their pockets and look for loose change) was for the record one of many truly terrible Voyager ideas, right up there with the episode where Voyager has to *teach the Borg* how to adapt their nanoprobes to attack Species Random-Sequence-of-Numbers. Put Mortal Coil and Scorpion together and you nearly have MagicBlood that is arguably just as ill-conceived as nuKhan-vintage MagicBlood in nuTrek.

Which speaks well of neither proposition.
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Old November 11 2013, 10:37 AM   #203
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.
So, abracadabra instead of hocus pocus, or Walla Walla, Washington.
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Old November 11 2013, 10:44 AM   #204
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nanoprobes are MACHINES. Hence, engineering, hence science.

Voyager my love you just got injected with some Hard Sci-Fi! Everyone will totally respect you now.
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Old November 11 2013, 01:27 PM   #205
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!
You do know Montalban was a Latino actor born in Mexico? So they should've hired another Mexican national to play Khan?
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Old November 11 2013, 03:18 PM   #206
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!
You do know Montalban was a Latino actor born in Mexico? So they should've hired another Mexican national to play Khan?
And that this supposed Indian turned white way back in Wrath of Khan?

And that, despite Marla's bizarre claim in "Space Seed", couldn't possibly have been identified as a Sikh on-sight due to his being clean-shaven, having a waxed chest and going without their sacred turban?
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Old November 11 2013, 03:42 PM   #207
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!

Naturally, there are NO actors on the whole damn planet who they could have found to play the part of Khan Noonian Singh without having to mumble something like, "Well, y'see I was adopted..."
.
Different actors have played the same parts in all sorts of films. We've had two Saaviks and two Cochranes with in the same continuity of Star Trek. Why draw the line at Khan? Are Curtis and Ally of the same ethnic background? And as been pointed out neither Montalban nor Cumberbatch are Indian and neither one spoke with an Indian accent.

Where was it stated Khan was adopted in either film or the TV series?
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Old November 11 2013, 05:33 PM   #208
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!

Naturally, there are NO actors on the whole damn planet who they could have found to play the part of Khan Noonian Singh without having to mumble something like, "Well, y'see I was adopted..."

Conversely, the addition of Khan's "super blood" has no similar retroactive impact on Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, and actually ties in neatly to Arik Soong's comments to Jonathan Archer about how the repressed genetic engineering technology could have saved Archer's father during the ENT Augment trilogy, and how the genetically engineered are free of illness and live 3 times longer than humans.
I never saw this part of Enterprise.
It's the same bloody (no pun) thing. STID, said McCoy created the cure from Khan's blood not that he used Khan's blood unaltered. Which, is exactly what Voyager did: Pulled whats was needed from Seven Of Nine's blood and created a cure.

BigJake wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Except that is rather an instance of defending a nuTrek trope by comparing it to an extremely terrible idea from a fairly terrible episode on the downslope of the Berman-era franchise, innit. How compelling it is to say something is not a terrible idea because it looks sort of like a terrible idea they had on Voyager... on a Voyager *Neelix episode* no less... meh.

Borg nanoprobe MagicBlood that revives people who are only Mostly-Dead instead of All-Dead (in which case all you can do is go through their pockets and look for loose change) was for the record one of many truly terrible Voyager ideas, right up there with the episode where Voyager has to *teach the Borg* how to adapt their nanoprobes to attack Species Random-Sequence-of-Numbers. Put Mortal Coil and Scorpion together and you nearly have MagicBlood that is arguably just as ill-conceived as nuKhan-vintage MagicBlood in nuTrek.

Which speaks well of neither proposition.
That's kind of the point though: STID isn't really anything different from what Trek's done before--good or bad.

There's no small of humor in people crying that STID is a rip-off movie, then saying "Well Trek never would/did [insert XYZ]!" If STID has one major flaw, is that it is to close prior Trek. To loyal in the tone and tropes from the prior years of the franchise. It's a good movie, I enjoyed it, had fun, but it's a by the numbers Trek movie.
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Old November 11 2013, 05:43 PM   #209
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Aren't we forgetting something?
EPISODE SYNOPSIS:
After being killed on an away mission and then revived by Seven's Borg nanoprobes, Neelix finds himself in a deep existential and spiritual crisis, questioning his faith and the meaning of his existence.
Doesn't sound like any Star Trek movie I've seen this year. Star Trek: Voyager, the world renowned queen of the reset switches was able to tell a story involving a reset switch and actually have it be about something. The act of being brought back to life is taken very seriously, where as in Star Trek Into Darkness it's treated as the convenient "reset switch" that comes with zero consequences so that everything can go back to the way things were.
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Old November 11 2013, 05:57 PM   #210
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Aren't we forgetting something?
EPISODE SYNOPSIS:
After being killed on an away mission and then revived by Seven's Borg nanoprobes, Neelix finds himself in a deep existential and spiritual crisis, questioning his faith and the meaning of his existence.
Doesn't sound like any Star Trek movie I've seen this year. Star Trek: Voyager, the world renowned queen of the reset switches was able to tell a story involving a reset switch and actually have it be about something. The act of being brought back to life is taken very seriously, where as in Star Trek Into Darkness it's treated as the convenient "reset switch" that comes with zero consequences so that everything can go back to the way things were.
So basically: a Trek movie.
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