RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,172
Posts: 5,435,345
Members: 24,940
Currently online: 502
Newest member: milos87popovic

TrekToday headlines

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 11 2013, 03:15 AM   #196
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 03:34 AM   #197
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post


McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.

Not every little thing needs a piece of dialog to fully "explain" it. The viewer should be able to connect the dots on their own.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
We also have Nomad raising Scotty from the dead in "The Changeling".
__________________
Nerys Myk

Last edited by Geoff Peterson; November 11 2013 at 03:45 AM.
Geoff Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 03:48 AM   #198
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post


McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.

Not every little thing needs a piece of dialog to fully "explain" it. The viewer should be able to connect the dots on their own.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
We also have Nomad raising Scotty from the dead in "The Changeling".
Yep. But the specific point was wanting an example of magic blood in Trek, and here we have exactly that.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 03:51 AM   #199
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post


McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.

Not every little thing needs a piece of dialog to fully "explain" it. The viewer should be able to connect the dots on their own.
Spock didn't have mental powers until they were retconned onto him a few episodes into the series - leading one to wonder why he never attempted a neck pinch on Garry Mitchell, or why he, a strong telepath, wasn't affected by passage into the barrier at the edge of the galaxy.

Conversely, the addition of Khan's "super blood" has no similar retroactive impact on Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, and actually ties in neatly to Arik Soong's comments to Jonathan Archer about how the repressed genetic engineering technology could have saved Archer's father during the ENT Augment trilogy, and how the genetically engineered are free of illness and live 3 times longer than humans.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 09:56 AM   #200
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Crusher revived Yareena, who was dead from poison, in 'Code of Honor'.
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 10:27 AM   #201
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
McCoy doesn't mention anything about blood composition. Besides, Original Khan and nuKhan are not the same people.
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!

Naturally, there are NO actors on the whole damn planet who they could have found to play the part of Khan Noonian Singh without having to mumble something like, "Well, y'see I was adopted..."

Conversely, the addition of Khan's "super blood" has no similar retroactive impact on Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, and actually ties in neatly to Arik Soong's comments to Jonathan Archer about how the repressed genetic engineering technology could have saved Archer's father during the ENT Augment trilogy, and how the genetically engineered are free of illness and live 3 times longer than humans.
I never saw this part of Enterprise.
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 10:28 AM   #202
BigSnake
Rear Admiral
 
BigSnake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Except that is rather an instance of defending a nuTrek trope by comparing it to an extremely terrible idea from a fairly terrible episode on the downslope of the Berman-era franchise, innit. How compelling it is to say something is not a terrible idea because it looks sort of like a terrible idea they had on Voyager... on a Voyager *Neelix episode* no less... meh.

Borg nanoprobe MagicBlood that revives people who are only Mostly-Dead instead of All-Dead (in which case all you can do is go through their pockets and look for loose change) was for the record one of many truly terrible Voyager ideas, right up there with the episode where Voyager has to *teach the Borg* how to adapt their nanoprobes to attack Species Random-Sequence-of-Numbers. Put Mortal Coil and Scorpion together and you nearly have MagicBlood that is arguably just as ill-conceived as nuKhan-vintage MagicBlood in nuTrek.

Which speaks well of neither proposition.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig

Last edited by BigSnake; November 11 2013 at 10:40 AM.
BigSnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 10:37 AM   #203
Creepy Critter
Admiral
 
Creepy Critter's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.
So, abracadabra instead of hocus pocus, or Walla Walla, Washington.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Creepy Critter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 10:44 AM   #204
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Nanoprobes are MACHINES. Hence, engineering, hence science.

Voyager my love you just got injected with some Hard Sci-Fi! Everyone will totally respect you now.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 01:27 PM   #205
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!
You do know Montalban was a Latino actor born in Mexico? So they should've hired another Mexican national to play Khan?
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock

Last edited by BillJ; November 11 2013 at 01:49 PM.
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 03:18 PM   #206
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!
You do know Montalban was a Latino actor born in Mexico? So they should've hired another Mexican national to play Khan?
And that this supposed Indian turned white way back in Wrath of Khan?

And that, despite Marla's bizarre claim in "Space Seed", couldn't possibly have been identified as a Sikh on-sight due to his being clean-shaven, having a waxed chest and going without their sacred turban?
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 03:42 PM   #207
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!

Naturally, there are NO actors on the whole damn planet who they could have found to play the part of Khan Noonian Singh without having to mumble something like, "Well, y'see I was adopted..."
.
Different actors have played the same parts in all sorts of films. We've had two Saaviks and two Cochranes with in the same continuity of Star Trek. Why draw the line at Khan? Are Curtis and Ally of the same ethnic background? And as been pointed out neither Montalban nor Cumberbatch are Indian and neither one spoke with an Indian accent.

Where was it stated Khan was adopted in either film or the TV series?
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 05:33 PM   #208
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Berman Trek Magic Blood.

The Doctor pronounces Neelix dead, but Seven proposes a revival procedure using nanoprobes from her bloodstream. After discussing it with the Doctor and Captain Janeway, Janeway orders the Doctor to proceed, even though Neelix has been dead for 18 hours. Seven quickly modifies and administers the nanoprobes, they proceed, and after some touch and go, Neelix is revived. He has no recollection of what happened and where he has been and wonders why he is in sickbay.
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Nanoprobes, not blood.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He doesn't have to. The human healing process centers around blood. Khan was seconds away from death in "Space Seed", that he could recover quickly and completely without McCoy lifting finger means he has "magic blood".

Original Khan and nuKhan are the same people. Khan comes from before the timeline split in 2233.
Yep. Khan and nuKhan are identical in every way. How could I possibly have missed that they're twins? Obviously I failed to notice that they're of the same ethnic background! Of course a caucasian guy with an accent that reminds me of Alan Rickman is really somebody who was born in India!

Naturally, there are NO actors on the whole damn planet who they could have found to play the part of Khan Noonian Singh without having to mumble something like, "Well, y'see I was adopted..."

Conversely, the addition of Khan's "super blood" has no similar retroactive impact on Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, and actually ties in neatly to Arik Soong's comments to Jonathan Archer about how the repressed genetic engineering technology could have saved Archer's father during the ENT Augment trilogy, and how the genetically engineered are free of illness and live 3 times longer than humans.
I never saw this part of Enterprise.
It's the same bloody (no pun) thing. STID, said McCoy created the cure from Khan's blood not that he used Khan's blood unaltered. Which, is exactly what Voyager did: Pulled whats was needed from Seven Of Nine's blood and created a cure.

BigJake wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Except that is rather an instance of defending a nuTrek trope by comparing it to an extremely terrible idea from a fairly terrible episode on the downslope of the Berman-era franchise, innit. How compelling it is to say something is not a terrible idea because it looks sort of like a terrible idea they had on Voyager... on a Voyager *Neelix episode* no less... meh.

Borg nanoprobe MagicBlood that revives people who are only Mostly-Dead instead of All-Dead (in which case all you can do is go through their pockets and look for loose change) was for the record one of many truly terrible Voyager ideas, right up there with the episode where Voyager has to *teach the Borg* how to adapt their nanoprobes to attack Species Random-Sequence-of-Numbers. Put Mortal Coil and Scorpion together and you nearly have MagicBlood that is arguably just as ill-conceived as nuKhan-vintage MagicBlood in nuTrek.

Which speaks well of neither proposition.
That's kind of the point though: STID isn't really anything different from what Trek's done before--good or bad.

There's no small of humor in people crying that STID is a rip-off movie, then saying "Well Trek never would/did [insert XYZ]!" If STID has one major flaw, is that it is to close prior Trek. To loyal in the tone and tropes from the prior years of the franchise. It's a good movie, I enjoyed it, had fun, but it's a by the numbers Trek movie.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |

Last edited by SeerSGB; November 11 2013 at 05:58 PM.
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 05:43 PM   #209
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Aren't we forgetting something?
EPISODE SYNOPSIS:
After being killed on an away mission and then revived by Seven's Borg nanoprobes, Neelix finds himself in a deep existential and spiritual crisis, questioning his faith and the meaning of his existence.
Doesn't sound like any Star Trek movie I've seen this year. Star Trek: Voyager, the world renowned queen of the reset switches was able to tell a story involving a reset switch and actually have it be about something. The act of being brought back to life is taken very seriously, where as in Star Trek Into Darkness it's treated as the convenient "reset switch" that comes with zero consequences so that everything can go back to the way things were.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11 2013, 05:57 PM   #210
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gee that sounds familiar. Like I saw it in a movie recently.
Aren't we forgetting something?
EPISODE SYNOPSIS:
After being killed on an away mission and then revived by Seven's Borg nanoprobes, Neelix finds himself in a deep existential and spiritual crisis, questioning his faith and the meaning of his existence.
Doesn't sound like any Star Trek movie I've seen this year. Star Trek: Voyager, the world renowned queen of the reset switches was able to tell a story involving a reset switch and actually have it be about something. The act of being brought back to life is taken very seriously, where as in Star Trek Into Darkness it's treated as the convenient "reset switch" that comes with zero consequences so that everything can go back to the way things were.
So basically: a Trek movie.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.