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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 10 2013, 03:54 PM   #196
Christopher
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Someone once told me that the Ilia probe need not have even been female, for Decker to have been motivated to join with V'ger. Saying that he did so because it was quite historic and once-in-a-lifetime ... and all of that stuff. Truth-be-told, it's not entirely clear, in this movie, what Decker's real motivations are.
There was a deleted subplot involving Decker's interest in spritual unity and transcendence, which was part of what had motivated his interest in Ilia and the telepathic unity of Deltan lovemaking. V'Ger gave him the opportunity to experience that kind of transcendence. Unfortunately, that was all lost.

Then again, if it had been left in, we might feel it was dated, since it does kind of reflect '70s culture and the mystical/transcendental movements that were trendy at the time.
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Old November 10 2013, 06:20 PM   #197
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Even without that context, I think it works on the level that, facing the "death" of the real Ilia and her "resurrection" via V'ger, he realized that Ilia was more important to him than commanding the Enterprise, and--having seen indications that something remained of the real Ilia as absorbed by V'ger--was willing to take the risk to "rejoin" her in her current incarnation.

Plus he was going where no man had gone before and saving Earth in the bargain.
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Old November 10 2013, 06:39 PM   #198
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Plus he was going where no man had gone before and saving Earth in the bargain.
Before Voyager's second season aired, there were rumors Decker would appear in "The '37s" as one of the displaced humans encountered by Janeway and her crew. I'm not sure why the idea was dropped, but one wonders how Voyager might have turned out had Janeway decided to keep Decker as first-officer and left Chakotay behind.

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Old November 10 2013, 09:54 PM   #199
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Christopher wrote: View Post
There was a deleted subplot involving Decker's interest in spritual unity and transcendence, which was part of what had motivated his interest in Ilia and the telepathic unity of Deltan lovemaking. V'Ger gave him the opportunity to experience that kind of transcendence. Unfortunately, that was all lost.
I like to think that Decker's prime motivator in joining with V'ger was the whole saving billions of lives on Earth, over it being mostly about some kind of personal journey thing for Decker.

McCoy: " Well, isn't it lucky for you that we just happened to be heading your way?"



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Old November 10 2013, 10:04 PM   #200
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

T'Girl wrote: View Post
I like to think that Decker's prime motivator in joining with V'ger was the whole saving billions of lives on Earth, over it being mostly about some kind of personal journey thing for Decker.
That's actually the ending I like for him, too. I'd rather Decker did what he did for Earth and for the Federation. It's actually a nice contrast with what happened to his father, given that Matt Decker went crazy before finally sacrificing himself in "The Doomsday Machine."

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Old November 11 2013, 02:47 AM   #201
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

I have a question about the 8' model used in the movie.

TMP remains the only occasion where we actually saw any of the hero ships depicted with open hatches (other than the shuttle bays). Indeed the refit Enterprise seems to be unique in that it was covered in surface details that indicated hatchways though most were never used.

I am, however, curious as to what was supposed to be under those hatches. We know one was an airlock (which always struck me as an odd place for one). What were the other 2?

Was the model actually built with these openings?
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Old November 11 2013, 04:24 AM   #202
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Well, some of the openings we saw in the drydock scenes weren't hatches, but hull plates that hadn't been attached yet. The only hatches on the saucer that are indicated in the published plans are the two airlock hatches on the forward underside of the saucer, the small personnel lift hatch on top near the front of the ship (where the leads egressed to walk to V'Ger's core), and the main gangway hatch on the port rim of the saucer (which had a gangway connecting it to the drydock frame while it was in dock).
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Old November 11 2013, 04:52 AM   #203
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, some of the openings we saw in the drydock scenes weren't hatches, but hull plates that hadn't been attached yet. The only hatches on the saucer that are indicated in the published plans are the two airlock hatches on the forward underside of the saucer, the small personnel lift hatch on top near the front of the ship (where the leads egressed to walk to V'Ger's core), and the main gangway hatch on the port rim of the saucer (which had a gangway connecting it to the drydock frame while it was in dock).
Right. I was just looking at the images showing these openings, and they're clearly outer hull plates that weren't fastened into place. Given that most of these areas were illuminated by spotlights from the dock, it's likely these were some of the final areas/systems of the ship being adjusted before launch.

All of these small details really speak to how rushed the Enterprise launch was. We don't know precisely when the original launch and shakedown were supposed to be, but it's generally accepted that they were still several weeks away.

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Old November 11 2013, 08:12 AM   #204
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Sran wrote: View Post
Before Voyager's second season aired, there were rumors Decker would appear in "The '37s" as one of the displaced humans encountered by Janeway and her crew.
IIRC, the Decker return was for a different episode. The writers were thinking that TMP's Voyager 6 might have a destiny with USS Voyager. But Stephen Collins was still contracted to "Seventh Heaven", IIRC, and around the same time Persis Khambatta passed away. The concept for an episode focusing on Will Decker never went any further.

As for the Ilia Probe, the novelization of TMP tells us that the probe that invades the bridge is essentially the same probe that impersonates Ilia.

When the script was "In Thy Image", Chekov christens the first probe "Tasha", due to its pearlescent appearance, reminding him of his Aunt Tasha's pearl ring. At the end of the telemovie, Ilia is miraculously restored, and they find the charred "light bee" device (that had generated its Ilia guise) lying on the ground.
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Old November 11 2013, 08:31 AM   #205
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Sran wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Plus he was going where no man had gone before and saving Earth in the bargain.
Before Voyager's second season aired, there were rumors Decker would appear in "The '37s" as one of the displaced humans encountered by Janeway and her crew. I'm not sure why the idea was dropped, but one wonders how Voyager might have turned out had Janeway decided to keep Decker as first-officer and left Chakotay behind.

--Sran
Yikes, that would have been even more boring!

I enjoyed Stephen Collins in Tales of the Gold Monkey, but he played one of the blandest ST characters ever.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
Before Voyager's second season aired, there were rumors Decker would appear in "The '37s" as one of the displaced humans encountered by Janeway and her crew.
IIRC, the Decker return was for a different episode. The writers were thinking that TMP's Voyager 6 might have a destiny with USS Voyager.
How... cute.
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Old November 11 2013, 11:26 AM   #206
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Christopher wrote: View Post
The only hatches on the saucer that are indicated in the published plans are the two airlock hatches on the forward underside of the saucer, the small personnel lift hatch on top near the front of the ship (where the leads egressed to walk to V'Ger's core), and the main gangway hatch on the port rim of the saucer (which had a gangway connecting it to the drydock frame while it was in dock).
That reminds me to bring up an observation I made.

In the film we have a scene where Spock enters the EVA suit storage and nerve pinches the crewman on duty. Because Kirk is putting on an EVA suit in the deleted scene and disappears behind a pressure door, everyone assumes this location to be in close proximity to the airlock we saw on the port underside of the saucer.

The other night I paid closer attention to the writing on the control console.
What's up with "ELEV(ator) TRAVEL UP or D(ow)N" ?!?

Do they board an elevator that gets them to the airlock or was that console a candidate to be used in the later scene with the personnel lift / elevator hatch on top.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; November 11 2013 at 12:45 PM. Reason: addition of deleted scene picture link
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Old November 11 2013, 11:52 AM   #207
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

The way it plays out, eventually, Kirk seems to be outside simply to retreive Spock's body, rather than to be in hot pursuit of him. In fact, it's not clear to me, watching this, that Kirk even has a thruster pack on. I love how in the extended version, Paramount in its wisdom, decided to restore the deleted thruster suit sequence and reveal to us all the scaffolding supporting the partially completed Saucer Section Setpiece. I mean, just how brilliant do you have to be? That one shot is like a turd in a punchbowl and they had to know what they were doing, even including that ... no one could've "missed" it, it's far too blatant.
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Old November 11 2013, 12:53 PM   #208
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

What makes the scene truly interesting is the morphing of the EVA space suit from this to its final appearance.

They really spent too much money in the wrong places, IMHO.

Bob
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Old November 11 2013, 12:58 PM   #209
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

The scene of Kirk getting into his spacesuit was from a different version of the entire sequence, with different spacesuits, and never belonged in the final film.
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Old November 11 2013, 01:07 PM   #210
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Re: Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Yes, but IIRC was presented as part of the "final film" in the 1983 extended TV version. Well, I thought it was nice to be able to see the deleted scenes footage preserved that way.

Bob
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