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Old November 7 2013, 04:06 AM   #556
shivkala
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Mark_Nguyen wrote: View Post
Slight tangent here, but Chris Jericho was awesome as a guest on Talking Dead afterwards, yes? I normally just skip through the random episode discussion to get to the behind the scenes stuff (reading the thread here is much more fulfilling!), but I was blown away by how prepared he was and how eloquently he presented his points. Made Gillian Jacobs seem mute by comparison, and I know she can be talkative too.
I don't get people being surprised about Chris Jericho. Yes, hew as a good guest, but it seems like people were expecting Marilyn Manson part II this past week! Granted, I don't know much about him, but it's not like he's the first guest to come prepared. If memory serves, it was another wrestler, C.M. Punk who came prepared last year, coincidentally sharing the couch with an actress from Community, Yvette Nichole Brown

Yonks better than what they had last week with Marylin Manson, for whom Hardwick had several indirect jabs this time. Not that Manson would be watching... It seems to be he wouldn't even remember being there last week.

Mark
On his new "game show", @Midnight, Hardwick took some jabs at Manson.

And for everything said about Manson it (a) got us talking about Talking Dead more than I think we ever have and (b) was entertaining in a, "staring at a car accident" kind of way.


My issue with Rick was his comment to Carol about her finding another group. The comment just came off as akin to "there are other fish in the sea," which is odd, seeing as how the number of humans keeps dropping. Granted there was the pair we met this episode (now at most a single guy), Tyrese's group, the Woodbury group, and that's all we've seen since season 2. It's not like Carol will be likely to run into other groups easily. Car or no car, in my opinion, sending someone out there to live on their own is a death sentence.

And what's to stop her from showing up at the prison? Seeing as how they are now run by a council, which Carol is (was) a member of, I don't think they'd be happy that Rick made the decision unanimously. Tyrese aside, I don't see the rest of the council agreeing with the exile of Carol, even when it comes to light what she did. I don't necessarily think they'd condone it, but I can't see any of them agreeing she needed to be exiled.
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Old November 7 2013, 06:48 AM   #557
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It's too bad that Romero doesn't like Walking Dead. It's certainly different from his style of storytelling, but so what? Variety is the spice of life.
I agree, RJ. It's like sibling rivalry or something. They are more alike than they are different.



Sindatur wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
Carol lost me when she traumatized the little girls losing their father by letting them hang around for the euthanasia - let alone shoving a knife in their hands and telling them - not only to kill someone but start with their father.
Actually the oldest of the little girls suggested she be the one to euthanaise their father but backed out.
Yea, that's definitely a relevant point many keep leaving out. Carol was going to do it, it was only after the girl insisted it be a family member that Carol relented and allowed it, and only after she froze (Putting herself in danger) that Carol encouraged/ tried to "force" her to do it.


Oh, thanks x 2 - I must have misheard the telly again. I'm like that Second Hand News guy on Weekend Update. Honestly? I have to watch TWD with captions.




TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
I'm also glad Carl's not (yet) stepping into Shane's antagonistic role. He's still got a lot to learn from his father.
...like plotting to hand over another person to a certain death save your own ass...oh, I mean "protect the group."


Who, Michonne? Michonne and he are both warriors. The others are civilians. I really don't think these acts are "equal" but definitely, as you bring up, worth debate. Further, at that time, Michonne was not, in fact, a member of their group. She was an outside threat being assessed. Her fate could have easily gone either way "for the protection of the group" or even "saving one's own ass." Like the yelling hiker on the road whom Rick ignored. Why? Because by that time, trust of strangers no longer could be be afforded.


Is Carol turning into another Shane? Maybe exiling her was the humane thing to do, and would allow Rick to avoid some particularly painful history repeating itself.

However, at no point do I think Rick acts to "save his own ass." Everything he does is for the protection of others - maybe the group, maybe his kids selfishly - but I have not seen him act out of cowardice or avarice. Then again, it's entirely open to interpretation.

"You get to come back" seems to be a theme that has repeated itself in Carl's case, thanks to Rick's efforts - a theme that Carol would eventually have to face with her own two new "daughters." Again, it's interpretation - did she tell them not to call her "Mom" for their own protection? Or for her own inability to get close again? As for Carl and Rick, they still have a lot to teach each other.

Rick isn't perfect - but if you think he's a villainous plotter acting out of purely selfish motives, I don't think that would fully account for the popularity of his lead role in this show. You might consider that he does not come off as that type of character for the show's producers and majority fan base. Of course interpretations are like snowflakes. You can't argue with them, and sometimes you need a shovel! You're right to judge his behaviors. What is "good" or "right" is a powerful thread in this story.


TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post


Changes like the comicification of entertainment. The conventionalization of big budget productions - you don't see shows that are raw, quirky or daring or adversarial as much as you used to; though offending people for its own sake is common.
Actually, the producers of the various AMC series pride themselves on being "raw," or "daring," simply because of the content--like the last 20 years of drama series thinking content cannot be relevant unless pushing buttons (incessantly), being offensive or depressing in one way or another,
Well, sure - and I definitely agree with this description of many dramas in recent history. The TWD producers, et al, do a great job, no question. But they don't define the zombie genre.


In this latest episode, the gas station zombie was killed with a you-know-what. This was one of the only humorous kills I can recall in this series. Humor - satire - was part of the charm of original zombie movies that helped crystallize the genre's popularity. "1001 Ways to Kill a Zombie" type gags. In Romero's 1978 Dawn of the Dead, one zombie stepped up a wall near a helicopter and shaved the top half of his skull off - hilarious! TWD doesn't have this kind of fun, opting instead for gruesome decomposition and carnage. There can be more to this story than drama and carnage. As it is now, TWD is largely escapism. A soap opera video game. Delicious - but rarely commenting on our present society, let alone challenging it or daring us to change, or showing us how.

I don't have any answers, but I get some of Romero's criticism. You know what I'd like to see? Robert Heinlein's take on Zombie Apocalypse survival. That would be truly challenging, and not just story based on visual effects with interminable (ha) soap opera emotional fluctuations sans happy endings. Don't get me wrong, today's FX RULE. Though I do miss film's resolution, hopefully it will become more possible, available and affordable in digital formats.

Zombies can be more than gore fodder. They are supposed to be us.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:47 AM   #558
RJDonner&Blitzen
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

DarthTom wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It's too bad that Romero doesn't like Walking Dead. It's certainly different from his style of storytelling, but so what? Variety is the spice of life.
Slow moving zombies and everyone that has adopted the, "Romero Style," on how they move and act is an homage to him and the genre that he started.

That he fails to see that is baffling.
Seriously. How many people get to invent a genre? He should be honored.

Triskelion wrote: View Post
I agree, RJ. It's like sibling rivalry or something. They are more alike than they are different.
Yeah, I don't understand this competitive mindset. There's room for more than one Zombie Apocalypse. Well, you know what I mean.
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Old November 7 2013, 06:09 PM   #559
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Pavonis wrote: View Post
How the hell did Ana's calf end up so far from her body? It looked like she was carrying her fruit basket, dropped it when she was chased, and they caught her. But her leg was so far away! She couldn't have gotten far without it. Did the walkers throw it? Did they drag her away? Neither is plausible, as walkers aren't picky about what they eat and wouldn't throw anything anyway. Why would they drag her after catching her? They wouldn't. So...how did her leg end up so far from the rest of her?
hahaha, EXACTLY! When I first saw that I couldn't get over it. How exactly was her leg severed and then a hundred and fifty feet from the rest of her body? And are these zombies eating the bones too? It makes me laugh at some of the plot holes used for dramatic effect in this show (obviously the leg was there with the tatoo to help show the viewer the victim was the woman).

Plus, Rick and Carol (the two healthy ones) stayed together for security but the two cripples . . . "you just separate and run away if you find any Walkers . . . you know, since you can't really defend yourselves and all. Crippled people running, that's an effective strategy right?" It reminds me of the backpacker Rick and crew left behind last season and then grabbed his backpack after he was torn to shreds. A lot of random strangers just end up the "red shirt landing party member" on this show. Zombiefodder.
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Old November 7 2013, 06:17 PM   #560
Kytee
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Loved the episode, I felt Ricks decision to exile Carol happened early in the episode as he seemed to be packing extra gear before they left the prison. One of the many things that I enjoy about the walking dead is situations like this; I can understand both Rick and Carols choices, and in some ways I think they were both right for what they did.

With regards to Daryl I think it's important to remember he has already said whoever did the killing deserves to be shot, of course I can see him reconsidering when he finds out it was Carol and even a bit relieved when Rick says he exiled her not killed her. I could see it playing out something like this
please forgive my absolute horrible dialog, this is just for example.
Rick : I found David and Karens killer
Tyrese :WHO!
Daryl : Lets get them out here and deal with it
Rick : It was Carol, I've already dealt with it
Daryl : Is she dead?
Rick : I exiled her
Tyrese : Where , she needs to die
Rick : I'm not telling you where; you want to kill her, then grab you hammer and go find her, but if you walk out those gates don't you dare think about coming back. Make a choice. Now.

Obviously Tyrese chooses to stay and we get a warm scene later between him and Michonne where she discusses her futile hunt for the Governor and he begins to get over his desire to hunt Carol.

With regards to the opening scene


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Old November 7 2013, 08:09 PM   #561
Ryan8bit
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I wonder if Sam lived. Rick told him where the prison was, so I wonder if he will end up there? Or he could end up crossing paths with the governor, and possibly join him being that he may be upset with Rick.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:25 PM   #562
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I think Sam is too easy going to be upset at Rick for leaving after Sam failed to show up.
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Old November 9 2013, 12:39 AM   #563
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post

There's room for more than one Zombie Apocalypse. Well, you know what I mean.
In World War Z, the zombies looked like something out of Goya--they were at their most frightening at a distance--rolling along like a pyroclastic flow.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It is a problem they're looking for antibiotics which are useless against viruses.
They might have just lumped in "anti-viral" with antibiotic.


sojourner wrote: View Post

Yeah, Jericho was great. Especially after the train wreck of Manson on last week's Talking Dead.

Give me some of what he was on...

I would have kept Carol and covered for her. You need strong folks like that. I would have made sure she cleared any actions with me in the future...

You don't need an alcoholic as part of the group--but he does have skills. That is the tougher call.
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Old November 11 2013, 03:53 AM   #564
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Very good, very powerful episode. But, argh! We have to wait until next week to see Daryl's reaction to the loss of Carol?!

And there's your sting!

I guess The Governor is the one feeding rats to the Walkers at the fence.
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Old November 11 2013, 04:09 AM   #565
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Wow. There has gotta be not too many people left in that prison at this point with so many dying off.

The Carl/Rick shooting of the zombie surge was pretty damn awesome.
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Old November 11 2013, 04:09 AM   #566
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Tense episode. Loved Maggie's reactions.

Rick: watched Hershel do and say exactly what Carol said earlier, making his treatment of her assbrained at best.

Carl: Now he's in gunslinger mode. Let's see if he keeps his humanity when the Governor hurts one he cares for.

Hershel: Sort of odd that he did not want to kill early on, when he was picking off walkers left and right in the season 2 finale.

Daryl: Clearly, he's not going to be as understanding as Maggie about Carol's fate.

The Governor: he's too well groomed, so I imagine we will see his new location and group soon...
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Old November 11 2013, 04:15 AM   #567
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Kickass episode, probably the best of the season. Herschel's a boss and I love how much he got to do here - Carol wishes she had his strength. Rick and Carl vs. the Horde was great, glad that Maggie finally got some real focus. Maggie's agreement with and Herschel's (presumed) understanding of Rick's actions was really nice, and while I'm sure Daryl's gonna have a much more negative reaction I'm pretty sure he comes around.

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Rick: watched Hershel do and say exactly what Carol said earlier, making his treatment of her assbrained at best.
Nope.
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Old November 11 2013, 04:25 AM   #568
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Kickass episode, probably the best of the season. Herschel's a boss and I love how much he got to do here - Carol wishes she had his strength. Rick and Carl vs. the Horde was great, glad that Maggie finally got some real focus. Maggie's agreement with and Herschel's (presumed) understanding of Rick's actions was really nice, and while I'm sure Daryl's gonna have a much more negative reaction I'm pretty sure he comes around.

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Rick: watched Hershel do and say exactly what Carol said earlier, making his treatment of her assbrained at best.
Nope. Not even remotely.
Carol was right: anyone infected to that degree dies and reanimates. This played out with Caleb, and various cellmates, including the people killed by Glen and Hershel. They did not have medicine in time to save Karen--or anyone in this latest episode who lost their fight with the disease. Moreover, Caleb did not have IVs for everyone, and they're forced to share the airbag, so after the passage of time--and no guarantee of a treatment--chaos kicked the doors open, and Lizzie and Hershel nearly lost their lives.

Rick's misguided, sympathetic stand was all for nothing.
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Old November 11 2013, 04:26 AM   #569
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I figure they'll use the Daryl/Rick Carol conversation to distract a bit, giving some room for whatever Philip has planned to catch everyone by surprise
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Old November 11 2013, 04:33 AM   #570
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Mojochi wrote: View Post
I figure they'll use the Daryl/Rick Carol conversation to distract a bit, giving some room for whatever Philip has planned to catch everyone by surprise
Agreed. I suspect he's hooked up with people similar to the woman Rick encountered in the woods.

You know what that means.
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