RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,754
Posts: 5,216,133
Members: 24,215
Currently online: 871
Newest member: SF Junkie

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 9 2013, 05:22 AM   #31
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: New Ms. Marvel

http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:Muslim_Characters

Not a lot, forgot about Monet.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 05:24 AM   #32
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: New Ms. Marvel

I've been planning to go to the comic book store tomorrow, so I'm glad I looked at this thread before going. I think I'm going to check this series out. It sounds intriguing.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 05:28 AM   #33
Turtletrekker
Vice Admiral
 
Turtletrekker's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: New Ms. Marvel

^Won't be out for a couple months.
__________________
I hate having thoughts on the top of my head. They usually jump off and commit suicide.
Turtletrekker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 05:31 AM   #34
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: New Ms. Marvel

http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/...ticleID=141308

Issue #1 comes out in February 2014.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 05:32 AM   #35
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: New Ms. Marvel

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
^Won't be out for a couple months.
Ah, thanks. I can still put it on subscription. My store will reserve issues, even in advance like this; that way, I won't miss it.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 05:44 AM   #36
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: New Ms. Marvel

Just had a really obvious thought about Terrigenesis.

Inhumanity is an inherited trait.

kamala's mum, dad or both are Inhumans too.

If neither of her parents are inhumans then, one or both of her parents are not her parents.

That leads to four possibilities...

1. Switched at birth. (Human error.)

2. Adoption/sperm donating/surrogacy. (Mum and Dad are part of the plan)

3. Mum had an affair. (Dirty mum!)

4 Golden Child Messiah sent off from a royal castle somewhere after life threatening circumstances (Snow white already! What if Bail Organna wanted a son?) to live in the relative safety of New Jersey. (mum and dad are trained assassins or palace guards.. The Powers of Matthew Starr?).
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 07:17 AM   #37
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: New Ms. Marvel

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.
ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about?
Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?
The '50s, huh? Your ignorance is worse than stunning. It's terrifying. If you're going to shit all over the very basis of the character, at least know what you're shitting on. There was a world before you were born, and you should learn why things are the way they are if you are to have an informed opinion. However, as you prefer to have uninformed opinions, I shall leave you to them.
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 07:33 AM   #38
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: New Ms. Marvel

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about?
Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?
The '50s, huh? Your ignorance is worse than stunning. It's terrifying. If you're going to shit all over the very basis of the character, at least know what you're shitting on. There was a world before you were born, and you should learn why things are the way they are if you are to have an informed opinion. However, as you prefer to have uninformed opinions, I shall leave you to them.
And how much do you know about Muslim-American women in 21st Century America? Or the people and intent behind the new Ms Marvel character?

BTW

Wiki article wrote:
The term was again suggested as a convenience to writers of business letters by such publications as the Bulletin of the American Business Writing Association (1951) and The Simplified Letter, issued by the National Office Management Association (1952).[9]
In 1961, Sheila Michaels attempted to put the term into use when she saw what she thought was a typographical error on the address label of a copy of News & Letters sent to her roommate.[10][11] Michaels "was looking for a title for a woman who did not 'belong' to a man."[12] She knew the separation of the now common terms Miss and Mrs. had derived from "Mistress", but one could not suggest that women use the original title with its now louche connotations. Her efforts to promote use of a new honorific were at first ignored.[13] Around 1971, in a lull during a WBAI-radio interview with The Feminists group, Michaels suggested the use of Ms. A friend of Gloria Steinem heard the interview and suggested it as a title for her new magazine. Ms. magazine's popularity finally allowed the term to enjoy widespread usage.[14] In February 1972, the US Government Printing Office approved using "Ms." in official government documents.[15]
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 07:35 AM   #39
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: New Ms. Marvel

Baiting people to attack you Beaker just so you can smack'em around?

You're like Jack Palance telling that farmer to pick up his gun in Shane.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 07:56 AM   #40
Professor Zoom
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Zoom's Avatar
 
Location: Idealistic
Re: New Ms. Marvel

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about?
Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?
The '50s, huh? Your ignorance is worse than stunning. It's terrifying. If you're going to shit all over the very basis of the character, at least know what you're shitting on. There was a world before you were born, and you should learn why things are the way they are if you are to have an informed opinion. However, as you prefer to have uninformed opinions, I shall leave you to them.

lol.
__________________
Batman does not eat nachos.
Professor Zoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 08:07 AM   #41
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: New Ms. Marvel

Ninja'd by Nerys Myk, but I'm not gonna just dump this.


According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms.#His...al_of_the_term:
Historical development and revival of the term

"Ms." (or at least the pronunciation associated with this spelling) began to be used as early as the 17th century, along with "Miss" and "Mrs.", as a title derived from the then formal "Mistress", which, like Mister, did not originally indicate marital status.[5][6] "Ms." in whatever form, however, fell into disuse in favor of the other two titles and was not revived until the 20th century.[7][8]

The earliest known proposal for the modern revival of "Ms." as a title appeared in The Republican of Springfield, Massachusetts on November 10, 1901:
There is a void in the English language which, with some diffidence, we undertake to fill. Every one has been put in an embarrassing position by ignorance of the status of some woman. To call a maiden Mrs is only a shade worse than to insult a matron with the inferior title Miss. Yet it is not always easy to know the facts...

Now, clearly, what is needed is a more comprehensive term which does homage to the sex without expressing any views as to their domestic situation, and what could be simpler or more logical than the retention of what the two doubtful terms have in common. The abbreviation "Ms" is simple, it is easy to write, and the person concerned can translate it properly according to circumstances. For oral use it might be rendered as "Mizz," which would be a close parallel to the practice long universal in many bucolic regions, where a slurred Mis' does duty for Miss and Mrs alike.[4]
The term was again suggested as a convenience to writers of business letters by such publications as the Bulletin of the American Business Writing Association (1951) and The Simplified Letter, issued by the National Office Management Association (1952).[9]

In 1961, Sheila Michaels attempted to put the term into use when she saw what she thought was a typographical error on the address label of a copy of News & Letters sent to her roommate.[10][11] Michaels "was looking for a title for a woman who did not 'belong' to a man."[12] She knew the separation of the now common terms Miss and Mrs. had derived from "Mistress", but one could not suggest that women use the original title with its now louche connotations. Her efforts to promote use of a new honorific were at first ignored.[13] Around 1971, in a lull during a WBAI-radio interview with The Feminists group, Michaels suggested the use of Ms. A friend of Gloria Steinem heard the interview and suggested it as a title for her new magazine. Ms. magazine's popularity finally allowed the term to enjoy widespread usage.[14] In February 1972, the US Government Printing Office approved using "Ms." in official government documents.[15]

[...]

4. ^ a b Zimmer, Ben (2009-06-23). "Hunting the Elusive First 'Ms.'". Word Routes. The Visual Thesaurus. Retrieved 2009-06-23.
5. ^ Spender, Dale (1981). Man Made Language. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul. ISBN 978-0-7100-0675-2.
6. ^ Stannard, Una (1977). Mrs Man. San Francisco: Germainbooks. ISBN 978-0-914142-02-7.
7. ^ [1][dead link]
8. ^ Martin, Judith. Miss Manners' Guide for the Turn of the Millennium, p.10. Simon & Schuster, New York, New York. ISBN 0-671-72228-X.
9. ^ "Ms.". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. Houghton Mifflin Company. 2009.
10. ^ Jeffs, Angela (November 5, 2000). "Missing piece of puzzle in story of 'Ms.'". The Japan Times Online.
11. ^ Michaels, Sheila (March–April 2008). "Forty Years of Defying the Odds". Solidarity Webzine. Solidarity. Retrieved November 9, 2009.
12. ^ Kay, Eve (28 June 2007). "Call Me Ms". The Guardian (accessed August 20, 2007)
13. ^ Fishko, Sara (June 28, 2012). "Fishko Files: Ms.". WNYC. Retrieved 2013-03-12.
14. ^ Zimmer, Ben (2009-10-25). "On Language: Ms.". The New York Times. Retrieved 2009-11-16.
15. ^ Frum, David (2000). How We Got Here: The '70s. New York, New York: Basic Books. p. 246. ISBN 0-465-04195-7.
16. ^ Safire, William. "On Language: Goodbye Sex, Hello Gender", The New York Times, August 5, 1984, Section 6 p. 8.

I'm not an expert on this, so I'm not claiming that this text is either factual or complete. However, it at least appears to be fairly well-referenced, and it doesn't seem implausible.

I won't go the extra mile to sort this all out, but I will go an extra foot. According to Merriam-Webster:

Merriam-Webster wrote:
Origin of MS.
probably blend of Miss and Mrs.
First Known Use: 1901
Merriam-Webster has the reputation of being an expert on American English, and what it says there is perfectly consistent with the Wikipedia article. Surely, if anyone wishes to deny the veracity of the Wikipedia article with the force of an opinion backed by evidence, they could provide references of their own.

That said, it looks like Ms. was indeed indeed revolutionary in the 1950's, whereas of course it isn't so much today. Additionally, it looks like Ms. was at least as much of an idea whose time had come as it was something disseminated from New York to the rest of the precious Heartland.

I don't know what else to make of this, except that it seems that the iguana has spoken truth.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 08:08 AM   #42
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: New Ms. Marvel

The ignorant lecturing others about ignorance always makes me LOL.

ETA: This post is directed at Beaker, not CorporalCaptain.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 08:22 AM   #43
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: New Ms. Marvel

I would have dated it to the 70s because of Ms.Magazine.

Which is a question of relevance more so than date of origin, because I remember a character used Ms. in Grease II which was set in the 50s.

Oh my.

My brain works so slowly.

Inhuman society is more so strictly about arranged marriages than modern Muslims (My flatmate who I live with and her husband explained it as a series(literally, not a metaphor) of exclusive password locked chatrooms on an internet site, where the men and women are each given about 10 or so preapproved choices to pick from and then they figure out who they get along with best. She wasn't allowed to meet him in person for a year because they both had to prove that they were a good match before tens of thousands of dollars was spent on the wedding (it's a 3 day event. Soooo much food.). Of course this happened because they were both too socially awkward to find a partner in the western fashion, shy very shy, and their 30th birthdays were approaching, which no one was telling them that they were not allowed to do.) so after Kamala has spent her childhood trying to assert her rights as a modern woman to make her own choices, or agreed to a traditional application of her families needs to find a "suitable" parter, fricking space men from the moon are going to come down and supersede whatever marriage track she was on up to that point, even if there was none, the Attillian fricking Genetic Council are going to insist who it is that she is going to have children with and will probably get quite dramatic if she has an opposing view point on her own life contra to their own.

I'm getting ahead of myself, this is probably going to be in the third annual.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; November 9 2013 at 08:42 AM.
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 07:38 PM   #44
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: New Ms. Marvel

Given her powers "Ms. Fantastic" might be more appropriate, I've read very little Ms. Marvel but I don't see much connection beyond the moniker. My reservations are that instead of a superhero that happens to be Muslim it sounds like this might be a Muslim that happens to be a superhero. Then again, I guess that might make for good story fodder in its own right but nothing that has me hankering to go back to the local comic shop.
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9 2013, 11:23 PM   #45
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: New Ms. Marvel

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Do you have any idea what that term was all about?
Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?
The '50s, huh? Your ignorance is worse than stunning. It's terrifying. If you're going to shit all over the very basis of the character, at least know what you're shitting on. There was a world before you were born, and you should learn why things are the way they are if you are to have an informed opinion. However, as you prefer to have uninformed opinions, I shall leave you to them.
I guess I could give you shit for this, but I am simply going to quote the following post, because really, what else could I add to it?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Ninja'd by Nerys Myk, but I'm not gonna just dump this.


According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms.#His...al_of_the_term:
Historical development and revival of the term

"Ms." (or at least the pronunciation associated with this spelling) began to be used as early as the 17th century, along with "Miss" and "Mrs.", as a title derived from the then formal "Mistress", which, like Mister, did not originally indicate marital status.[5][6] "Ms." in whatever form, however, fell into disuse in favor of the other two titles and was not revived until the 20th century.[7][8]

The earliest known proposal for the modern revival of "Ms." as a title appeared in The Republican of Springfield, Massachusetts on November 10, 1901:
There is a void in the English language which, with some diffidence, we undertake to fill. Every one has been put in an embarrassing position by ignorance of the status of some woman. To call a maiden Mrs is only a shade worse than to insult a matron with the inferior title Miss. Yet it is not always easy to know the facts...

Now, clearly, what is needed is a more comprehensive term which does homage to the sex without expressing any views as to their domestic situation, and what could be simpler or more logical than the retention of what the two doubtful terms have in common. The abbreviation "Ms" is simple, it is easy to write, and the person concerned can translate it properly according to circumstances. For oral use it might be rendered as "Mizz," which would be a close parallel to the practice long universal in many bucolic regions, where a slurred Mis' does duty for Miss and Mrs alike.[4]
The term was again suggested as a convenience to writers of business letters by such publications as the Bulletin of the American Business Writing Association (1951) and The Simplified Letter, issued by the National Office Management Association (1952).[9]

In 1961, Sheila Michaels attempted to put the term into use when she saw what she thought was a typographical error on the address label of a copy of News & Letters sent to her roommate.[10][11] Michaels "was looking for a title for a woman who did not 'belong' to a man."[12] She knew the separation of the now common terms Miss and Mrs. had derived from "Mistress", but one could not suggest that women use the original title with its now louche connotations. Her efforts to promote use of a new honorific were at first ignored.[13] Around 1971, in a lull during a WBAI-radio interview with The Feminists group, Michaels suggested the use of Ms. A friend of Gloria Steinem heard the interview and suggested it as a title for her new magazine. Ms. magazine's popularity finally allowed the term to enjoy widespread usage.[14] In February 1972, the US Government Printing Office approved using "Ms." in official government documents.[15]

[...]

4. ^ a b Zimmer, Ben (2009-06-23). "Hunting the Elusive First 'Ms.'". Word Routes. The Visual Thesaurus. Retrieved 2009-06-23.
5. ^ Spender, Dale (1981). Man Made Language. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul. ISBN 978-0-7100-0675-2.
6. ^ Stannard, Una (1977). Mrs Man. San Francisco: Germainbooks. ISBN 978-0-914142-02-7.
7. ^ [1][dead link]
8. ^ Martin, Judith. Miss Manners' Guide for the Turn of the Millennium, p.10. Simon & Schuster, New York, New York. ISBN 0-671-72228-X.
9. ^ "Ms.". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. Houghton Mifflin Company. 2009.
10. ^ Jeffs, Angela (November 5, 2000). "Missing piece of puzzle in story of 'Ms.'". The Japan Times Online.
11. ^ Michaels, Sheila (March–April 2008). "Forty Years of Defying the Odds". Solidarity Webzine. Solidarity. Retrieved November 9, 2009.
12. ^ Kay, Eve (28 June 2007). "Call Me Ms". The Guardian (accessed August 20, 2007)
13. ^ Fishko, Sara (June 28, 2012). "Fishko Files: Ms.". WNYC. Retrieved 2013-03-12.
14. ^ Zimmer, Ben (2009-10-25). "On Language: Ms.". The New York Times. Retrieved 2009-11-16.
15. ^ Frum, David (2000). How We Got Here: The '70s. New York, New York: Basic Books. p. 246. ISBN 0-465-04195-7.
16. ^ Safire, William. "On Language: Goodbye Sex, Hello Gender", The New York Times, August 5, 1984, Section 6 p. 8.

I'm not an expert on this, so I'm not claiming that this text is either factual or complete. However, it at least appears to be fairly well-referenced, and it doesn't seem implausible.

I won't go the extra mile to sort this all out, but I will go an extra foot. According to Merriam-Webster:

Merriam-Webster wrote:
Origin of MS.
probably blend of Miss and Mrs.
First Known Use: 1901
Merriam-Webster has the reputation of being an expert on American English, and what it says there is perfectly consistent with the Wikipedia article. Surely, if anyone wishes to deny the veracity of the Wikipedia article with the force of an opinion backed by evidence, they could provide references of their own.

That said, it looks like Ms. was indeed indeed revolutionary in the 1950's, whereas of course it isn't so much today. Additionally, it looks like Ms. was at least as much of an idea whose time had come as it was something disseminated from New York to the rest of the precious Heartland.

I don't know what else to make of this, except that it seems that the iguana has spoken truth.
I think we are done here. Next time you are "terrified" of someone's ignorance, beaker, be sure you are not looking at a mirror.
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.