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Old November 6 2013, 06:24 PM   #1516
Kestrel
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Ovation wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
I've always believed that the fantastic death toll in Man of Steel was partly a plot consequence of Superman being so outnumbered, but mainly due to Snyder et al. really getting off on building smashing. I'm convinced they really felt it was exciting and entertaining stuff. I expect they are just astonished anyone could have been so bored they started wondering what was happening to the meaningless civilians off screen. Zod's suicide was different, but not the issue here. .
Agreed. Any discussion about the destruction of Metropolis always discusses it from an in-universe point of view. And sure, from that point of view the destruction makes sense. Zod was attacking Metropolis with his army and Superman, as green and outnumbered as he was, did the best that he could under the circumstances. All well and good.

However, my problem is that the destruction was written into the movie in the first place. The destruction and people flying hundreds of feet into the air just to smash into the ground was written into the film because Goyer and Synder thought it would be cool. It's the same logic that the Transformers films run on.
That's fine. No one has to like what was presented in the film. But I've found that many complaints rest on things that ignore the situations set up in the film. To criticize artistic choices made by the filmmakers is perfectly reasonable. To expect the character of Superman to behave as though he'd been at the hero job for years, given the setup in the story, is not. It makes no sense.
Yes, exactly. I don't share the heavy criticism of the artistic choice about Metropolis' destruction (though I did find myself thinking it was stretched out too far), but I think it's certainly reasonable.
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Old November 6 2013, 06:31 PM   #1517
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
However, my problem is that the destruction was written into the movie in the first place. The destruction and people flying hundreds of feet into the air just to smash into the ground was written into the film because Goyer and Synder thought it would be cool. It's the same logic that the Transformers films run on.
Well to be fair they did have to find a somewhat new and different way to show the destruction, since every other idea has pretty much been done to death by this point after countless alien invasion movies. And the gravity idea did seem pretty different.

Although I won't deny they went a bit overboard with the scale of the destruction. The same point could have been gotten across with Zod only destroying a few blocks, instead of half the city.
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Old November 7 2013, 01:44 PM   #1518
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Another WW contender appears to have auditioned for the role. This report suggests that former Bond girl Olga Kurylenko auditioned:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/64996

Not only this, but it's now being reported that Dick Grayson might also appear - but as Nightwing, rather than Robin. This would tally with the idea of an older Batman but it remains unconfirmed for now.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/65004

I wonder how likely it is that the movie would contain not just the World's Finest but two other costumed heroes? Obviously we don't know how big WW and NW's roles would be, if they even appear, but is this in essence going to be a Justice League movie (even if Dick isn't strictly part of the JL)?
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Old November 7 2013, 05:48 PM   #1519
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

As long as they're only making brief appearances, I'm fine with it. But it feels like enough attention is already being taken away from Clark in this movie by having Batman in there, and I wouldn't want to have even more costumed characters thrown in there as well.

Especially when you consider they're also going to have to devote screen time to whoever the villain is, and telling his story.
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Old November 7 2013, 06:04 PM   #1520
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I like Olga Kurylenko, but I don't think she's right for the part.

Before all this news, I figured that if they include Wonder Woman, it would be in as a cliff-hanger surprise or in a post-credit sequence. Having her in there on top of Batman would be too much for what I'm hoping will be a proper Man of Steel sequel.
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Old November 7 2013, 11:24 PM   #1521
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I stand with Ovation on the issue of the Battle of Metropolis as depicted in Man of Steel. First day on the job, all the factors as citied, and three major fights in the space of less than 24 hours, after decades of teaching himself to hold back rather than fight.

I have no complaints about such a depiction.
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Old November 8 2013, 12:00 AM   #1522
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Another WW contender appears to have auditioned for the role. This report suggests that former Bond girl Olga Kurylenko auditioned:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/64996

Not only this, but it's now being reported that Dick Grayson might also appear - but as Nightwing, rather than Robin. This would tally with the idea of an older Batman but it remains unconfirmed for now.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/65004

I wonder how likely it is that the movie would contain not just the World's Finest but two other costumed heroes? Obviously we don't know how big WW and NW's roles would be, if they even appear, but is this in essence going to be a Justice League movie (even if Dick isn't strictly part of the JL)?
I don't have any problem with Kurylenko as an actress, but I don't know if she's somebody I would have picked for Wonder Woman. As for the inclusion of Dick Grayson too, that is making me a little nervous. I'm really hoping if they are including all of these other characters, that they play smaller supporting role. The fact that they're calling this Batman/Superman or vs or whatever would lead one to expect this to focus on them, not on them, Wonder Woman, and Nightwing. They've obviously done ensemble superhero movies before and made it work, but there have also been times where they tried to include so much, and so many characters, that the movies have ended up really shallow with the focus spread so thinly that no one gets any decent development. I guess if these rumors are true, we should just hope that this falls into the former category, and not the later.
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Last edited by JD; November 8 2013 at 12:14 AM.
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Old November 8 2013, 01:49 AM   #1523
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Maybe this will be the first film in a JLA/JSA Trilogy+, and not the Second Superman Movie?

Or Maybe both Nightwing and Wonder Woman will be "cliffhanger introductions" to lead into that JLA/JSA Trilogy+

I don't know Olga Kurylenko, but based upon Googling images of her, although she's sexy, I think Wonder Woman should be a thicker Girl.

Also, I think the Sif Actress (Jamie Alexander?) has a much closer face to my internal image of Wonder Woman. Olga's face could work for me, but again, I'd like to see a thicker girl, so, if she got the part, I'd prefer to see her gain a little weight/muscle (For me, Wonder Woman shouldn't be built like a Martial Artist, more like An American Gladiator or Kristen Johnston)
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Old November 8 2013, 02:16 AM   #1524
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

davejames wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
I saw a TON of buildings fall. And Supes was pretty much a part of that destruction. Metropolis was turned to rubble. And the thousands of people killed. It would've been almost the same if the US had detonated a tactical nuke.

Superman was no Superman in this movie.
I haven't conducted a tally, but my impression was that most of the area had already been decimated by the World Engine by the time Superman showed up.

Zod got a massive head start on destroying Metropolis while Supes was taking on the other Engine, and had pretty much already turned the city into a war zone by the time they actually fought.
I've seen it again today and yes, the World Engine destroys most of the buildings before Superman shows up. And during his fist fight with Zod they only scratch a couple of buildings, but they don't destroy them.

The fight in Smallville is senseless, though. Superman just flies into a gas station, a diner, throws a guy into trains, and doesn't care about any civilians that might happen to stand there.


Christopher wrote: View Post
And on top of all that, it was incredibly stupid. Buildings do not fall down the moment a human-sized body slams into them, I don't care how tough it is or hard it hits. They're designed not to do that. The World Trade Center towers were hit by jet airplanes and took well over an hour to fall -- and it wasn't the impact that caused their collapse, it was the cumulative damage from the runaway fires. Toss an invulnerable human through a skyscraper and you'll punch a hole in it, but it will not instantly collapse like a house of cards. The entire sequence was both pointless and nonsensical. In many respects, it should not have happened at all.
That didn't happen. Buildings are smashed by the World Engine, by exploding fuel trucks and by Zod's heat vision. But never by Kryptonians slamming into them.





In a way, with that level of destruction, this film actually felt like Part III of a trilogy to me. You usually end up with such a world devastating climax at the end of a hero's journey, not at the beginning.
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Old November 8 2013, 04:11 AM   #1525
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
I saw a TON of buildings fall. And Supes was pretty much a part of that destruction. Metropolis was turned to rubble. And the thousands of people killed. It would've been almost the same if the US had detonated a tactical nuke.

Superman was no Superman in this movie.
I haven't conducted a tally, but my impression was that most of the area had already been decimated by the World Engine by the time Superman showed up.

Zod got a massive head start on destroying Metropolis while Supes was taking on the other Engine, and had pretty much already turned the city into a war zone by the time they actually fought.
I've seen it again today and yes, the World Engine destroys most of the buildings before Superman shows up. And during his fist fight with Zod they only scratch a couple of buildings, but they don't destroy them.

The fight in Smallville is senseless, though. Superman just flies into a gas station, a diner, throws a guy into trains, and doesn't care about any civilians that might happen to stand there.
Well the guy Superman hits into the railroad was a Krytonian and the guy threw a engine back at him. And he was alittle angry with Zod for attacking his mother. Faora also told him he wasn't willing to risk the humans and that somehow made her superior to him.
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Old November 8 2013, 04:40 PM   #1526
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

JarodRussell wrote: View Post

The fight in Smallville is senseless, though. Superman just flies into a gas station, a diner, throws a guy into trains, and doesn't care about any civilians that might happen to stand there.

I didn't read it as he didn't care, but more as another example of just how raw and untrained he is for this sort of thing.
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Old November 8 2013, 06:54 PM   #1527
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I'm willing to gives Supes the benefit of the doubt with some of that, and assume that he scanned ahead to see that no one was in direct danger at the gas station or in the buildings he threw people through.

People were obviously killed by the crashing plane, but I don't think you can really blame him for that one.

And let's not forget that this was the beginning of a war for the fate of the planet. There were obviously going to be casualties during something like that, and I actually appreciate that the movie didn't try to play things too safe or pretend like hardly anyone was going to get hurt (ahem, Avengers).
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Old November 8 2013, 08:33 PM   #1528
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

JarodRussell wrote: View Post

I've seen it again today and yes, the World Engine destroys most of the buildings before Superman shows up.
Good thing he spent all that time in the unpopulated place...

What was the reason why he was over there and the US military worked on the one in Metropolis? I don't remember.
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Old November 8 2013, 08:48 PM   #1529
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I've seen it again today and yes, the World Engine destroys most of the buildings before Superman shows up.
Good thing he spent all that time in the unpopulated place...

What was the reason why he was over there and the US military worked on the one in Metropolis? I don't remember.
I can't remember if they ever actually specified a reason, but I always assumed it was because Superman could get out there a lot faster than they could. The World Engine was in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
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Old November 8 2013, 09:20 PM   #1530
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

That was pretty much the reason. The military would never have made it there in time.
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