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Old November 5 2013, 03:01 AM   #61
teacake
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

LYNX OPEN THE CLUB DOORS!!
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Old November 5 2013, 05:15 PM   #62
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

^^
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Old November 7 2013, 10:25 AM   #63
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Although the novels are not canon, they have "Fury"-Kes actually just be a shard of her that was bitter, somehow split of, became its own entity and then went rampage. I think that would have helped the episode a lot.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:26 AM   #64
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

What novel did that happen in?
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Old November 7 2013, 01:47 PM   #65
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

FreddyE wrote: View Post
Although the novels are not canon, they have "Fury"-Kes actually just be a shard of her that was bitter, somehow split of, became its own entity and then went rampage. I think that would have helped the episode a lot.
Kes had an angry shit that broke the universe?
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Old November 7 2013, 08:15 PM   #66
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Awful episode. Just watched it today. Awful on so many levels. The fact that Kes now needed a ship (somehow I thought she evolved beyond corporeal form), the fact that she caught up with Voyager and nobody thought to ask her how she was able to and to perhaps share her secret if it had something to do with the ship she acquired (after she oddly "remembered" that Janeway wasn't an evil of course), the fact that the newly nice old Kes didn't offer another "gift" by sending the Voyager another 5 years closer to home once again since she was able to do that before -- or better yet, you would think she could send them even closer at this point in her evolution, plus I just hated that they wrote evolved older Kes as wanting to infect the Voyager crew with the phage no matter what she misremembered about her experience with them. And the whole reaction to Neelix's dinner and the scene on the transporter at the end was just...odd.

It's always neat to revisit the earlier years in later episodes, but this episode was just bad. I almost hate it as much as the finale of Enterprise. I can't believe Jennifer Lien agreed to do it.
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Old November 7 2013, 08:29 PM   #67
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

No, she wanted the crew to be harvested, cut into little pieces, and grafted onto Vidiians piecemeal.

I suppose all the pieces of the people we knew would then start to get the phage, but I doubt that that's what you meant.

Hey Kes is a ####.

Fury was a year after Think tank, and she said that she went back to live on Ocampa, which would have kept her abreast of local politics.

Either the Thinktank saved the Vidiians, or the Thinktank ruined the Vidiians.

In either case Kes didn't hasten their "destiny" which would have been a friendly thing to do and make them her bitch if they were saved, or save a lot of innocent people from harvesting if they were doomed.
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Old November 7 2013, 08:43 PM   #68
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Sorry, harvesting. That's right. My bad.
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Old November 7 2013, 08:56 PM   #69
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Putting the Phage into Neelix's Gumbo would have been a fitting end.

Lower decks crewman A "Hey does this taste weird?"

Lower decks crewman B "Shut up, don't be rude, it always tastes weird."
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Old November 7 2013, 10:20 PM   #70
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

dub wrote: View Post
Awful episode. Just watched it today. Awful on so many levels. The fact that Kes now needed a ship (somehow I thought she evolved beyond corporeal form), the fact that she caught up with Voyager and nobody thought to ask her how she was able to and to perhaps share her secret if it had something to do with the ship she acquired (after she oddly "remembered" that Janeway wasn't an evil of course), the fact that the newly nice old Kes didn't offer another "gift" by sending the Voyager another 5 years closer to home once again since she was able to do that before -- or better yet, you would think she could send them even closer at this point in her evolution, plus I just hated that they wrote evolved older Kes as wanting to infect the Voyager crew with the phage no matter what she misremembered about her experience with them. And the whole reaction to Neelix's dinner and the scene on the transporter at the end was just...odd.

It's always neat to revisit the earlier years in later episodes, but this episode was just bad. I almost hate it as much as the finale of Enterprise. I can't believe Jennifer Lien agreed to do it.
Neither can I. In fact, she did loose a couple of points in my book by agreeing to participate in this horrible episode.

as for character destruction, it was the worst I've ever seen. The real Kes would never, ever dream of do any harm to her crewmates.

Honestly, "Fury" still makes me furious after all these years.

The only thing the script for this episode would be useful for is as a toilet paper.
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Old November 8 2013, 12:17 AM   #71
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

In the future they use sea shells.
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Old November 8 2013, 12:21 AM   #72
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

For toilet paper?
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Old November 8 2013, 11:44 AM   #73
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

You don't understand, all restaurants are Taco Bell.
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Old November 11 2013, 03:55 AM   #74
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

The Kes splinter story was in the String Theory trilogy, and it went a long way to redeeming Kes after the awful Fury. Kes is one of my very favorites, she and Janeway are my top two, so I really hated how her character was damaged so badly in this story.
I'm guessing JL didn't read the script before she agreed to do this story.
I think Fury is so bad it would've took a massive rewrite to make it work. A different, better story should've took it's place.
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Old November 11 2013, 06:17 PM   #75
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Re: Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

borgboy wrote: View Post
The Kes splinter story was in the String Theory trilogy, and it went a long way to redeeming Kes after the awful Fury. Kes is one of my very favorites, she and Janeway are my top two, so I really hated how her character was damaged so badly in this story.
I'm guessing JL didn't read the script before she agreed to do this story.
I think Fury is so bad it would've took a massive rewrite to make it work. A different, better story should've took it's place.
I totally agree with your statement.

When it comes to characters, Kes Chakotay and Janeway are my top 3 Voyager favorites.

As for "Fury", I know that there are those who question my theory that those in charge made the story just to show the finger at the Kes fans who wanted her back. But honestly, after all those years I still can't find another reason for them to come up with such an awful, meaningless story. It had no purpose at all and didn't fit in or affect the ongoing Voyager saga as such.

I don't understand why JL agreed to participate in this destruction of her character but she did at least do one good thing. What I've read or heard, the original plan was to kill off the character but JL made them change their minds about that.

And yes, "Fury" was so bad that it is impossible to make it better. There should have been a totally different Kes come-back story, most likely my "Coming Home" story which can be found at the Kes Website!
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