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Old November 5 2013, 10:02 PM   #16
Triskelion
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Re: Conlangs

Miss Chicken, I appreciate these insights a lot, being ignorant in the area of library science. Tremendous potential resource.

I agree with you that people may get hung up on math, when it's really about intuitive-yet-systematic classification. In principle, a number could be assigned to any word on Earth - which may take more descriptions in other languages. For example, in Japanese one number for "Wa" may suffice, but to translate that into English you may have to describe "Accommodation for Group Benefit," or something. So - with the help of translation software, you could assign a number to every human concept, and rely on native speakers to put it in more local terms.

Computers could in theory interface to locate common referents in almost any medium - text, image, sound, light - to create a true exolinguistic database for Universal Translation Star Trek style. Back on Earth, I would consider this universal language a useful alternative to technology. A lot of it stems from my moving to China cold turkey without knowing a single word of Chinese. Funnily enough, I got by (sort of) on sign language but this is useful for conversations with little wallet cards in target languages.

Yes, it does stem from my L1 English concepts. I think your questions merit more international input than what one person could answer. (This is why I tend toward open source development for this). My thinking is, English has already done a lot of global legwork ahead of Sevencube, so it's sensible to start from that reference point anyway. Besides, if people of one language understood each other perfectly there'd be no literature.

I also have a program someone wrote in Python that translates Sevencube text back-and-forth automatically. It could work in any language.

The really intriguing thing about this language is that it could benefit from not only speech-to-text software (and T2S), but also instant translation between humans and machines (and AI?) in any part of the world - regardless of a person's native tongue. IE, you don't have to memorize Sevencube to use it. I'm sure something similar is already the basis for translation programs out there. My idea is to classify it intuitively - as you say - and speak without need for technology, if that matters any more.

I'm just uncertain about what people would want - to memorize, to use a phone translator, or to have a little artificial babel fish in their ear. I like the fish one.
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Old November 6 2013, 02:11 PM   #17
Bagliun Edar
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Re: Conlangs

My conlang is called "Obulamga", I translate this as "Godspeech". "Obu" is the name of God within my conworld, "lamga" may mean speech, language, or the action of creating as a noun; or speak, spawn, or create as a verb.

I began it when I needed a naming language to name the souls of my conworld. I had been developing a complex cosmology for it, and it involves reincarnation, so I needed a way to keep track of each character across the generations. I read the Language Construction Kit by Mark Rosenfelder and started on it. I feel in love with it and continued beyond a mere naming language. Godspeech is more a practice language than anything else, intended to be a divine language. Almost nothing of it would end up within a novel, if I ever write one.

Since someone mentioned numbers, these are the numbers from 1 to 10 in Godspeech:
al: one
am: two
obul: three
ja: four
ala: five
vin: six
en: seven
enal: eight
enam: nine
enobul: ten

It's a base seven system.
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Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise".
Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise.
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Old November 6 2013, 08:01 PM   #18
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Conlangs

SmoothieX wrote: View Post
Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise". Thuirgiriadimorduldo eliogayālzuonzu ala. Bemgli andergrurbloglibomde. Bōldui zrimthabilgrobomdetha glidromungrobomdetha. Thalzēmar lonlin othalzu gayamalebaunbal mor.
Let's bust out the old decoder ring here...

I am a 31 year old mouthbreather that lives in my mother's basement. My face looks like a pepperoni pizza and I live on Hot Pockets. I lost my job at the comic book store after my manager caught me fapping to Spiderman. I like long walks on the beach, Rainbow Brite, and paint by number. My ideal woman is a Martian.
Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.
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Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
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Old November 7 2013, 04:25 AM   #19
shivkala
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Re: Conlangs

sojourner wrote: View Post
Kara tu dekat!*



*for a translation please dig up issue 35 of the Will Payton Starman comicbook written by Keith Giffen. One of the funniest ever written.
Letztawk idofer.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:00 AM   #20
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Conlangs

I did a little conlang-ing for an abandoned fantasy project decades ago, but nothing since. I threw away all my notes, because I was not satisfied with the direction that project was taking.

The gist of my conlang was that the letters of the alphabet derived from pictograms, and the spelling of each word derived from a story that illustrated its meaning as its essential point or moral. When the pictograms got simplified over time into letters, those prototype stories accordingly become spelled out words. I guess you could say it was kind of Darmok-like to an extent, but not nearly that cool.

I routinely pick Darmok as one of my favorite TNG episodes.

I find this thread quite fascinating, but I really have nothing to add beyond what I've already said.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:14 AM   #21
Squiggy
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Re: Conlangs

Betsemes wrote: View Post
Laimnil (hello all),
Conlanging, the "secret vice" as Tolkien once referred it to, is something that has bit me recently. I've been making up my own language for the past few months. Here is a sample of it.

Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise". Thuirgiriadimorduldo eliogayālzuonzu ala. Bemgli andergrurbloglibomde. Bōldui zrimthabilgrobomdetha glidromungrobomdetha. Thalzēmar lonlin othalzu gayamalebaunbal mor.
"Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission. To explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before."

I suppose that trekkies interested on any kind of conlang would prefer Klingon or Vulcan. Yet I'm curious. It's there anyone in this forum who has constructed a language of his own? Could we see a sample?
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Old November 7 2013, 05:49 AM   #22
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Conlangs

No, I lied. I have a few more comments.

Betsemes wrote: View Post
Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise". Thuirgiriadimorduldo eliogayālzuonzu ala. Bemgli andergrurbloglibomde. Bōldui zrimthabilgrobomdetha glidromungrobomdetha. Thalzēmar lonlin othalzu gayamalebaunbal mor.
I've not studied conlangs, so I don't know what's out there (post-Tolkien). Also, I haven't looked at The Language Construction Kit by Mark Rosenfelder (I appreciate the reference to that, by the way), so I don't know to what degree your work is based on his. However, to me, "Obulamga" looks really strange and alien, unlike any real language I know of, and if that's what you were going for, then I think you succeeded in spades. In addition, it looks possible to sound out words, so it's definitely not random, and if people in principle being able to speak your language was something you desired, then I think you succeeded there also. The only critical comment I have that might tend to make your language look like something made up (aside from it being unknown) is that your words look a little on the longish side. But take that for what it's worth, given all the qualifications I've made.

I also think that Triskelion's system is extremely interesting, and Miss Chicken's observations regarding library classification are invaluable.
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Old November 7 2013, 07:07 AM   #23
Triskelion
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Re: Conlangs

^ 556.

313 443 61 5.
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Old November 7 2013, 08:41 AM   #24
Miss Chicken
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Re: Conlangs

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
No, I lied. I have a few more comments.

Betsemes wrote: View Post
Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise". Thuirgiriadimorduldo eliogayālzuonzu ala. Bemgli andergrurbloglibomde. Bōldui zrimthabilgrobomdetha glidromungrobomdetha. Thalzēmar lonlin othalzu gayamalebaunbal mor.
I've not studied conlangs, so I don't know what's out there (post-Tolkien). Also, I haven't looked at The Language Construction Kit by Mark Rosenfelder (I appreciate the reference to that, by the way), so I don't know to what degree your work is based on his. However, to me, "Obulamga" looks really strange and alien, unlike any real language I know of, and if that's what you were going for, then I think you succeeded in spades. In addition, it looks possible to sound out words, so it's definitely not random, and if people in principle being able to speak your language was something you desired, then I think you succeeded there also. The only critical comment I have that might tend to make your language look like something made up (aside from it being unknown) is that your words look a little on the longish side. But take that for what it's worth, given all the qualifications I've made.

I also think that Triskelion's system is extremely interesting, and Miss Chicken's observations regarding library classification are invaluable.
I surmised, but am not sure, that his language is a polysynthetic language which, though they might look strange to those used to European languages, are quite common throughout the world. Many Native American languages are polysynthetic, as are some Australian Aboriginal languages, some languages of New Guinea, Ainu, Greenlander etc.
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Old November 7 2013, 09:09 AM   #25
mickmike
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Re: Conlangs

conlang sounds like a word that should be used in the following sentences:

'your girlfriend has a great set of conlangs'

or

'you mother gave me great conlang last night but please tell her to stop changing her lipstick'
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Old November 7 2013, 01:08 PM   #26
Bagliun Edar
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Re: Conlangs

Triskelion wrote: View Post
I created a language called Sevencube or Sevenquad or just Quad. It's an international language that you can use instantly or speak with people anywhere - without technology....
That's fascinating! It reminds me the philosophical languages of past centuries, Wilkins' specifically.
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Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise".
Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise.
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Old November 7 2013, 01:47 PM   #27
Bagliun Edar
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Re: Conlangs

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I've not studied conlangs, so I don't know what's out there (post-Tolkien). Also, I haven't looked at The Language Construction Kit by Mark Rosenfelder (I appreciate the reference to that, by the way), so I don't know to what degree your work is based on his. However, to me, "Obulamga" looks really strange and alien, unlike any real language I know of, and if that's what you were going for, then I think you succeeded in spades. In addition, it looks possible to sound out words, so it's definitely not random, and if people in principle being able to speak your language was something you desired, then I think you succeeded there also. The only critical comment I have that might tend to make your language look like something made up (aside from it being unknown) is that your words look a little on the longish side. But take that for what it's worth, given all the qualifications I've made.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I was aiming for a nice sounding language, yet it should look and feel alien. I chose all voiced sounds and avoided common combinations. The sounds [p, t, k] from which languages in general have at least two of them, were avoided (they are voiceless sounds anyway). Since it's a language for Gods, I also ruled out allophones. The first time I posted about this language was on Mark Rosenfelder's forum (I risked it with a bunch of professional linguists) and that "no allophones" part was what they objected the most; yet it was because every single human language has allophones. I decided this makes it even more alien, so I kept it.

This is Obulamga's phonetic inventory:
b [b]
d [d]
g [g]
j [ʒ]
l [l]
m [m]
n [n]
r [ɾ]
th [š]
v [v]
y [ʎ]
z [z]


a [a]
e [ɛ]
i [i]
o [ɔ]
u [u]

The symbols within square brackets are IPA symbols and they represent exactly how each letter should sound. The macron appearing over some of the vowels mean that the vowel is pronounced twice longer.
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Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise".
Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise.
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Old November 7 2013, 02:31 PM   #28
Bagliun Edar
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Re: Conlangs

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
I surmised, but am not sure, that his language is a polysynthetic language which, though they might look strange to those used to European languages, are quite common throughout the world. Many Native American languages are polysynthetic, as are some Australian Aboriginal languages, some languages of New Guinea, Ainu, Greenlander etc.
It's an fusional/aglutinative language with maybe an aspect that may seem like polysynthetic. Let me explain how I constructed one of the sentences. Let's take "Bōldui zrimthabilgrobomdetha glidromungrobomdetha."

Bōldui zrimthabil-gro-bomde-tha glidrom-un-gro-bomde-tha.
bōldui [ˈbɔːldui] v. to search
zrimthabil [ˈzɾimšabil] n. being (compound word from zrim [individual] and thabil [consciousness], so etymologically it means "individualized consciousness").
-gro [-gɾɔ] noun declination meaning "neuter, plural, no definiteness specified".
bomde [ˈbɔmdɛ] adj. unknown (in this context, English "new" actually stands for "unknown").
-tha [-ša] collective-and
glidrom [ˈglidɾɔm] adj. civilized
-un [-un] verbal/adjectival suffix. In the case of adjectives it means something that can be described with the adjective, making a noun. Glidromun means "something or someone civilized", a group of people in this context.

Adjectives may work either as verbs (S is civilized), or may attach to the modified noun after any nominal declination.

The suffix used for "and" attaches to each joined phrase.
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Zobardibi, lēnglibeigaol. Ulgro mālanalgriror vobululamaimunuzu mabezu "Enterprise".
Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:33 PM   #29
Triskelion
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Re: Conlangs

Betsemes wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
I created a language called Sevencube or Sevenquad or just Quad. It's an international language that you can use instantly or speak with people anywhere - without technology....
That's fascinating! It reminds me the philosophical languages of past centuries, Wilkins' specifically.
Thanks!

According to Wikipedia, Wilkins' proposal had some issues:

One criticism (among many) is that "words expressing closely related ideas have almost the same form, differing perhaps by their last letter only...[I]t would be exceedingly difficult to remember all these minute distinctions, and confusion would arise, in rapid reading and particularly in conversation."
For some, a wall of numbers may have that effect. Sevencube, though, really is easier than it looks.
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Old November 7 2013, 11:05 PM   #30
Miss Chicken
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Re: Conlangs

a couple of questions about Sevencube

1) how do you show different tenses?
2) how do you show real numbers?
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