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Old November 6 2013, 03:15 PM   #31
mickmike
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Okay so i've read through this thread about three times and done enough face palming to win the captain picard facepalm medal of valour.

Seriously Kommander, you are making all of these ridiculous assumptions about a guy you don't even know and contemplating even more ridiculous scenarios like him potentially getting violent over a girl from what i can gather you haven't even asked on a date yet.

Just grow a pair of balls, be a mature adult and ask her out.

By the way i got lost some where between all the nonsense about odin stealing stuff out of your fridge and the photo of you with fedora and the massive walls of text you were posting. so if you have asked her out i apologise.

Regardless, you come across to me as a possessive, insecure and over-analytical. All these attributes are going to push this girl away. Also all that noise about being attracted to women who are severely damaged emotionally makes you sound predatory and creepy. Again not attractive.


Also that fedora of yours needs be burnt, stamped on and put in a steel box. You need to then get on the first boat heading over either the mariana trench or laurentian abyss (i forget which is deeper) and drop that fucker so it can be crushed to smithereens by the pressure. You do not pull it off dude, no body does.

Last edited by mickmike; November 6 2013 at 03:30 PM.
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Old November 6 2013, 04:43 PM   #32
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

I see that Kommander projects a lot. Much of what he see's in other is actually coming from within himself.

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Old November 6 2013, 05:04 PM   #33
Kestra
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

There's a lot of verbosity for someone that seems like an acquaintance. Advice on dealing with it would be to focus on developing a relationship with her if that's what you want, and then later worry about setting boundaries if that seems necessary.

It also feels like you're downplaying the uniqueness of individuals. Sure, there are going to be recurring patterns and traits in your life, but each woman is different. To talk about them all as some generic broken mentally unstable prone to abusive relationships stereotype does no one any favors. I'd hate for a guy to define me the way you do here.
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Old November 7 2013, 06:30 AM   #34
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
Women are attracted to confident men, not always the alpha male. The alpha male characteristics they DO like include: going after what he wants, taking charge, and showing her that he can handle her as well as himself and she's not going to be his mother. I don't know any woman that finds possessiveness to the point of anger and lashing out attractive.
Women are attracted to what they're attracted to, and women differ in what they're attracted to. Confidence is generally an attractive trait, but not everyone is attracted to confidence, and not everyone knows what confidence looks like even if they are, and not everyone actively pursues what they are attracted to. In every situation I've been in where a guy gets angry and possessive and starts lashing out at me, the woman usually responds by distancing themselves from me. I guess it's understandable. In these situations, between me and the other guy, one of us is going to be happy and the other pissed off. Keeping the other guy happy and pissing me off is the easier option because my anger isn't explosive.

Several people have pointed out that I appear angry, possessive, and insecure in this thread. And they're right, I am. What they're wrong about is that the solution is to simply not be these things. That isn't possible. All people feel anger, possessiveness and insecurity. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. The solution isn't to wish them away and pretend they don't exist, the solution is to redirect those negative feelings into constructive, or at the least, non-destructive actions. Negative emotions are not bad things, but how they prompt one to act can be. Venting on a message board probably isn't the best solution, but it's better than many alternatives. It helped me to organize my thoughts, and a few people had some good things to say. Overall, what I did was somewhat constructive.

mickmike wrote: View Post
Okay so i've read through this thread about three times and done enough face palming to win the captain picard facepalm medal of valour.
Awesome! I like winning medals.

mickmike wrote: View Post
Seriously Kommander, you are making all of these ridiculous assumptions about a guy you don't even know and contemplating even more ridiculous scenarios like him potentially getting violent over a girl from what i can gather you haven't even asked on a date yet.
I guess that's an apt summary.

mickmike wrote: View Post
Just grow a pair of balls, be a mature adult and ask her out.
I believe I've thoroughly demonstrated that I plan to make this as complicated as possible. Sorry, but your suggestion is not compatible with this outlook.

mickmike wrote: View Post
Regardless, you come across to me as a possessive, insecure and over-analytical.
You come across to me as dismissive and condescending. Is there a point to this or are we just name calling? The first two apply to everyone and the third is subjective. Most of the time when people berate me for over-analysis it's because they either want me to overlook something, because they think I'm being a pain in the ass about something they don't care about, or because I'm better at it than they are (see the "pain in the ass" thing I said). I'm not analyzing you so you probably don't want me to overlook something, and you're reading this thread of your own free will without prompting from me. So, are you threatened by my intelligence? There's really no reason to be. Intelligence is pretty meaningless, and I'm pretty stupid about most things, like this entire fucking thread.

mickmike wrote: View Post
All these attributes are going to push this girl away.
Maybe, maybe not.

mickmike wrote: View Post
Also all that noise about being attracted to women who are severely damaged emotionally makes you sound predatory and creepy. Again not attractive.
Not really. If I had said "I purposefully go after damaged women because they're easy" you may have a point. I said, pretty much the opposite of that.

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
I see that Kommander projects a lot. Much of what he see's in other is actually coming from within himself.
No more than anyone else in this thread.

Kestra wrote: View Post
There's a lot of verbosity for someone that seems like an acquaintance.
I'm like this about everything.

Kestra wrote: View Post
Advice on dealing with it would be to focus on developing a relationship with her if that's what you want, and then later worry about setting boundaries if that seems necessary.
My primary concern is whether or not I'm entering yet another toxic situation. The best way to determine this is by doing what you just said. However, if I later determine that the situation is toxic, it'll be more difficult to back out if I become attached to her. Right now, I'm not really attached to her, so it seems like this would be the best time to determine if it would be a toxic situation. I haven't really found any evidence of toxicity, but I'm concerned that, because that's the conclusion I'd like to reach, that maybe I'm purposefully overlooking something. I've done it before, and I have difficulty backing away from toxic situations once I become attached. This is why I'm always hesitant when I want to ask someone out. This is not going to change until I manage to find some non-toxic situations.

Kestra wrote: View Post
It also feels like you're downplaying the uniqueness of individuals. Sure, there are going to be recurring patterns and traits in your life, but each woman is different. To talk about them all as some generic broken mentally unstable prone to abusive relationships stereotype does no one any favors. I'd hate for a guy to define me the way you do here.
Did I give the impression that I was defining all women this way? I'm sorry if I did. I'm attracted to this type. I don't want to be, but I am. Luckily, it's not the only type I'm attracted to, so it should be avoidable. No, I don't assume that all women I'm attracted to are emotionally unstable, let alone all women in general. But when I'm attracted to someone, it is a question I ask myself, and something I look for. If I don't notice anything, I worry that I'm purposefully overlooking it. It's more about doubting my own perception than doubting the mental stability of those I'm attracted to.
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Old November 7 2013, 07:34 AM   #35
Melakon
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
You say this is not "assumption" but "inductive reasoning" and elsewhere you say other things are not assumptions but speculation.
Splitting hairs is a hobby of mine.
Is fantasizing about other people's relationships also a hobby?
Kommander wrote: View Post
Kestra wrote: View Post
Advice on dealing with it would be to focus on developing a relationship with her if that's what you want, and then later worry about setting boundaries if that seems necessary.
My primary concern is whether or not I'm entering yet another toxic situation.
Ask yourself what the common element is in these toxic situations.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:33 AM   #36
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Melakon wrote: View Post
Is fantasizing about other people's relationships also a hobby?
Apparently.

Melakon wrote: View Post
Ask yourself what the common element is in these toxic situations.
I have asked myself that, and answered it: It's me.

I've identified why: I'm attracted to toxic relationships.

I even have at least some idea as to why I'm attracted to them: If I'm dating someone who has a bunch of bullshit to deal with, I'm hoping my flaws won't seem as bad by comparison and will go unnoticed, dating these people gets really emotionally intense and, after spending my childhood and teenage years suppressing my emotions, feeling something that intense feel great, and, on some level, I believe I'm fundamentally unlovable and the best I can do is be used by someone who loves me only because I'm the least shitty thing in their fucked up life.

I then realized why this should change: Everyone has flaws, and a lot of people actually like mine, or at least find them tolerable, and because of this, I'm not fundamentally unlovable. So, two of those problems were based on false premises. The addiction to intense emotions, however, is a very real problem and something I should keep an eye on. Also, being in these situations really sucks and does not end well for anyone.

I've somewhat figured out how to change it: Learn to identify these situations and avoid them. I've had some success with this. Unfortunately, one woman I've decided I should avoid works at my school and I have to sneak past her some times.

And finally, I've figured out how to move on: Enter into relationships that are not toxic. This I have not managed yet. Hopefully i will.

I'm sorry, was the "you're the common element" thing supposed to be some big reveal? One of the advantages of over-analyzing fucking everything is that I have become very self-aware.
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Old November 7 2013, 10:52 AM   #37
Deckerd
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander have you lost a lot of weight? If so, well done that man.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:06 PM   #38
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, was the "you're the common element" thing supposed to be some big reveal? One of the advantages of over-analyzing fucking everything is that I have become very self-aware.
No, I wouldn't have made such a sweeping statement. But if you want to congratulate yourself for your perceptiveness, that's fine. Usually though, once a person recognizes a problem within themselves, they do what they can to change that problem, instead of finding reasons why they can't change.

eta: It sort of sounds like you intentionally seek out these emotionally messed up women (as you perceive them anyway) in order to make yourself feel superior to them.
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Old November 7 2013, 05:26 PM   #39
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
I've identified why: I'm attracted to toxic relationships.

I even have at least some idea as to why I'm attracted to them: If I'm dating someone who has a bunch of bullshit to deal with, I'm hoping my flaws won't seem as bad by comparison and will go unnoticed
This is insightful and I applaud your self-honesty in this assessment. And, it really shows your way forward. The most important thing is to learn to be comfortable in your own skin and fix any flaws that are worthy of fixing. And, not all may not actualy be flaws. So, a bit of wisdom is required to determine which ones are flaws and then to address them.

If you can do that, I think the problem of being attracted to toxic relationships will go away. But, you need to address the underlying problems. I mean, avoiding toxic relationships is good but, without addressing the true problems rather than the symptoms, you'll continually be drawn to them.

And, congratulations on losing weight!

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Old November 7 2013, 05:56 PM   #40
Scout101
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Melakon wrote: View Post
eta: It sort of sounds like you intentionally seek out these emotionally messed up women (as you perceive them anyway) in order to make yourself feel superior to them.
That's what I'm getting. Compared to these trainwrecks, (perceived or otherwise), he comes off nicely. And gets to play the hero. Except he imagines a lot of these faults, and seems to be trying to barrel into situations that aren't as he perceives them.

Plus, you know, trying to be possessive towards women he doesn't have any particular stake in. If you want to act like a jealous boyfriend, you at least have to go through the motions of asking the girl out first. Creating these imaginary relationships in your head without really talking to them doesn't work. And you let it go on so long that you've been dating for 6 months in your head, and in her head, you're just the guy that's said hi in class once or twice. Shocker that you're not on the same page.

Gotta look through this thread, and the last few: Do you really see anyone agreeing with you? You get argumentative, violent, and arrogant very quickly, and just turn on the people you're sharing with. You're convicnced you're right, but looking around, not seeing anyone agreeing with you. The Fedora is a nice example; you're NOT pulling it off. Especially in the photo you used as proof, where not only the hat doesn't really work, it's not working with the poorly fitting suit and odd facial hair. Maybe in a tiny geek subset that's a real thing (but so are capes and foam swords), but not if you're attempting more mainstream appeal. Like talking to women you don't know.

Sure I'm up next to be ripped by you, but if you are half as insightful as you continually claim, you'll see the pattern here, and realize that maybe since everyone is saying the same thing roughly, that you've misread things...
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Old November 7 2013, 08:03 PM   #41
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Kommander have you lost a lot of weight? If so, well done that man.
Since I joined here, my weight has fluctuated by about 30lbs. I don't really intentionally gain or lose weight, but my lifestyle fluctuates. When I am active I tend to eat less and lose weight. When I'm not-so-active I eat more and gain weight. That picture was taken at the lower end of my weight fluctuations. Currently I'm about 15-20lbs heavier, and am currently in an active, eating less, losing weight cycle.

Melakon wrote: View Post
No, I wouldn't have made such a sweeping statement. But if you want to congratulate yourself for your perceptiveness, that's fine. Usually though, once a person recognizes a problem within themselves, they do what they can to change that problem, instead of finding reasons why they can't change.
There's a difference between finding reasons that I can't change and finding reasons why I can't change immediately. I can change, and I am, but it's a process.

Melakon wrote: View Post
eta
Melakon wrote: View Post
: It sort of sounds like you intentionally seek out these emotionally messed up women (as you perceive them anyway) in order to make yourself feel superior to them.
It's more so there's less of a chance of them seeing me as inferior to them, but I see your point. I disagree with your point, but I see it. Thinking that I'm superior or inferior to anyone doesn't make any sense to me. Compared to any random person I'm likely better in some ways and worse in others. There's really no objective criteria with which to judge the absolute value of a person.

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
This is insightful and I applaud your self-honesty in this assessment. And, it really shows your way forward. The most important thing is to learn to be comfortable in your own skin and fix any flaws that are worthy of fixing. And, not all may not actualy be flaws. So, a bit of wisdom is required to determine which ones are flaws and then to address them.

If you can do that, I think the problem of being attracted to toxic relationships will go away. But, you need to address the underlying problems. I mean, avoiding toxic relationships is good but, without addressing the true problems rather than the symptoms, you'll continually be drawn to them.

And, congratulations on losing weight!

Mr Awe
To those bitching about my defensive replies, phrase your criticisms like this and I won't.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
That's what I'm getting. Compared to these trainwrecks, (perceived or otherwise), he comes off nicely. And gets to play the hero. Except he imagines a lot of these faults, and seems to be trying to barrel into situations that aren't as he perceives them.
Kind of like you're doing now?

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Plus, you know, trying to be possessive towards women he doesn't have any particular stake in. If you want to act like a jealous boyfriend, you at least have to go through the motions of asking the girl out first.
This makes the assumption that the boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic is the only human relationship that contains substance. My friend's ex-girlfriend didn't particularly like me when they were dating, and did her best to separate me from him. I told her to fuck off. Should I have just deferred to her wishes because they had been dating for a little less than a year and that's clearly a superior relationship to my decade-long friendship? Considering they broke up a month later, I think I was right to stand my ground. Dating someone does not give one the right to dictate how they interact with others. That needs to be agreed upon and consented to. Even if it's a girl I just met, if she wants to talk to me but her boyfriend doesn't want her talking to me, the boyfriend can go fuck himself.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Gotta look through this thread, and the last few: Do you really see anyone agreeing with you? You get argumentative, violent, and arrogant very quickly, and just turn on the people you're sharing with. You're convicnced you're right, but looking around, not seeing anyone agreeing with you.
As I mentioned, I have a history of being a target of abuse. The first thing abusers typically do is try to convince the target that everyone is against them. Make of this observation what you will.

No one agreed with me, huh? I seem to recall Robert Maxwell agreeing with me on at least some points. That's some concrete evince that you are wrong.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
The Fedora is a nice example; you're NOT pulling it off. Especially in the photo you used as proof, where not only the hat doesn't really work, it's not working with the poorly fitting suit and odd facial hair. Maybe in a tiny geek subset that's a real thing (but so are capes and foam swords), but not if you're attempting more mainstream appeal. Like talking to women you don't know.
Subjective opinions with no basis for credibility. If Holdfast said these things I'd take them into consideration. He knows how to dress the fuck out of himself and I'm aware of it. I have no idea how you or others that have commented dress, therefore your opinions have no credibility at this point. Post some pictures of yourself dressed in clothing so I can get a perception of your tastes and I may reconsider.

Also, where did you get the idea I was going for mainstream appeal? I'm a musician, and my appearance is designed to attract attention. It works. I get plenty of compliments on my sense of style. As for my facial hair, if by "tiny geek subset" you mean half the musicians I know, then you are absolutely correct. I notice you didn't say anything about the eyeliner. Maybe you didn't notice it. Now that I pointed it out are you going to criticize me for being genderqueer too? I fucking dare you.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Sure I'm up next to be ripped by you,
You choose hostility over diplomacy, knowing that it'll prompt me to respond defensively, and then preemptively mock me for it. If you had any intention of establishing credibility with me, being manipulative is probably the worst possible way to go about it.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
but if you are half as insightful as you continually claim, you'll see the pattern here, and realize that maybe since everyone is saying the same thing roughly, that you've misread things...
And back to the appeal to popularity.
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Old November 7 2013, 08:41 PM   #42
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Whatever, dude. You've established the same pattern in basically every thread, sorry you don't see that. And don't pretend I did something magical you upset you, you've come out swinging, again, in the many threads on very similar issues. For all the credit you want for being self-aware, you either can't see or refuse to awknowledge some pretty obvious points. If you know what your deal is, and you totally get what's going on with these girls, how come you keep ending up here telling us you misread things or acted innapropriately?

If you can't see any of these issues after multiple people pointing them out, in multiple threads, it's your own problem. Then again, since you enjoy the drama, I'm not sure if you're really complaining, or just sharing to feed your ego...

Not interested in attacking your army of strawmen, other than to say it's an amazing link to now see that I'm bashing gender-identity now
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Old November 7 2013, 09:00 PM   #43
Kommander
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Whatever, dude. You've established the same pattern in basically every thread, sorry you don't see that. And don't pretend I did something magical you upset you, you've come out swinging, again, in the many threads on very similar issues.

If you can't see any of these issues after multiple people pointing them out, in multiple threads, it's your own problem. Then again, since you enjoy the drama, I'm not sure if you're really complaining, or just sharing to feed your ego...

Not interested in attacking your army of strawmen, other than to say it's an amazing link to now see that I'm bashing gender-identity now
Yeah, don't actually address anything I said and just repeat yourself. Now who's seeking out others that they can feel superior to?

Interspersed between my valid points such as establishing credibility and your misunderstanding of the word "everyone" were ad hominims. Also, pointing out logical fallacies is not a cheat code for refuting arguments. They aren't invalid arguments, they're weak, easy to refute arguments. Actually refuting them only takes slightly more effort than pointing them out. I only pointed out the appeal to popularity because I already refuted it once.

Here's something else about being a victim of abuse: They tend to be mistrustful of those who make positive comments and equate negativity with honesty. They justify the abuse they endure as honesty and what they deserve and see positivity as hyperbolic. Many, when they try to break free of the abuse, simply flip the perception; only acknowledge positive reinforcement and dismiss anything negative. Sometimes abusers point this out, the target realizes they're right, and falls right back in, or just dismisses it and becomes a cunt. To actually recover from abuse, one has to learn to evaluate criticism and learn the difference between valid criticism and bullshit, and the difference between persuasion and manipulation. I agreed with some of the points made by others in this thread, even some of the hostile ones. Your posts had no substance other than being hostile toward me, so this tells me I'd be wise to not take any of it into consideration. Sure, you could be right in that many people disagreeing with me is a good indicator that I'm wrong, but it could also be that these threads are full of insecure people that see attacking me as a chance to act superior. Considering that you seem to think addressing the valid points I made is beneath you, and in one of the other threads my primary critic was a fucking pick-up artist, and that so many people criticized my fucking appearance at length, and there were few if any attempts to establish credibility, I'm leaning toward insecure lashing out. Seriously, the bullshit about my taste in hats was just fucking stupid.

Also, I didn't equate what you said with bashing gender identity, I challenged you to do it, and you didn't take the bait. Now who's being manipulative? Oh wait, I am. Shit.

Last edited by Kommander; November 7 2013 at 09:32 PM.
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Old November 7 2013, 09:03 PM   #44
sttngfan1701d
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

That's the sense I get too, and I haven't even seen the other threads.

Describe convoluted case, solicit opinions, systematically disagree with everything people say, get argumentative, continue making excuses as to why his specific mindset prevents him from asking out this girl, when all he's really interested in is enjoying his own drama and hiding behind it by projecting onto others.

Kommander, if you're not gonna follow anyone's advice, what's the point of this? And Scout101 is right re: the fedora and the facial hair. You look fairly ridiculous. Now, I'm sure that makes me a judgmental asshole or whatever in your mind, but look at it for what it is....unless you find a girl who dresses "trad" herself or appreciates your quirks, or get a group of friends that have similar quirks, you're going to be viewed as a little "off."

And you're doing yourself no favors by being antagonistic to everything. Jumping to conclusions via Facebook photos and people you haven't met. At this point, talk to the girl. Ask her out. But unless you change the way you behave or think about other people, the side of you that you've shown in this thread will come out and I guarantee you she won't like you.

Your ego is huge. You need to work on that.
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Old November 7 2013, 09:54 PM   #45
Melakon
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Re: Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Kommander wrote: View Post
. . .I'm a musician. . .
Okay, some of this is making sense to me now. I know from my own experience that artists can be obsessive, thin-skinned when it comes to criticism, and "odd", and they hate being called out on it. Has expressing some of your doubts about relationships through your music helped at all?
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